AR 15 450 Bushmaster (don't know where to put this)

[Artful]

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=370982

300 Hornady XTP/MAG Accurate AAC-9 26.7 1600
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Accurate AAC-9 28.3 1700
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Hodgdon Lil'Gun 25.5 1500
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Hodgdon Lil'Gun 27.2 1600
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Hodgdon Lil'Gun 28.8 1700
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Hodgdon Lil'Gun 30.5 1800
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Hodgdon Lil'Gun 32.2 1900
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Ramshot Enforcer 27.2 1500
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Ramshot Enforcer 28.7 1600
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Hodgdon H-110 27.0 1500
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Hodgdon H-110 29.5 1600
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Hodgdon H-110 31.9 1700
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Hodgdon H-110 34.4 1800
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Winchester W-296 28.7 1500
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Winchester W-296 30.6 1600
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Winchester W-296 32.6 1700
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Winchester W-296 34.5 1800
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG IMR IMR-4227 30.5 1500
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG IMR IMR-4227 32.2 1600
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG IMR IMR-4227 33.9 1700
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Vihtavuori VV-N120 32.5 1500
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Vihtavuori VV-N120 34.2 1600
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Vihtavuori VV-N120 36.0 1700
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Vihtavuori VV-N120 37.7 1800
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Vihtavuori VV-N120 39.5 1900
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Accurate AAC-1680 34.7 1500
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Accurate AAC-1680 36.6 1600
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Accurate AAC-1680 38.5 1700
Remarks: COL: 2.065"
300 Hornady XTP/MAG Accurate AAC-1680 40.4 1800
Remarks: maximum load; COL: 2.065"

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.ht...&f=42&t=324826

[Mr Humble]

Good info but all for jacketed bullets. Should be okay with cast as well.

[Artful]

Hey, being I don't own of these beasts - you get what I can find.

[Sagebrush7]

I have 450 BM checks for sale. They are extra tall to protect lead bullets from gas port cutting on the side. They work! the guys on the AR forums used them for a while till they got there own in house gas check maker.

[tja6435]

There we go. 2 on left are as cast from the MP 44/444-300, coated with Hi-Tek red copper.

The next uncoated shows how it looks with leaving the hollow point.

The last 3 are swaged up to .452" with closed nose and the Corbin baseguard checks , they run right at 306-307gr

[Mr Humble]

Nice work, but still work. Crimp on .452-4 (like Hornady used to make) are available on fleabay.

[tja6435]

I've been running sub and super sonic (500/250gr) cast boolits coated with Hi-Tek in the 458 SOCOM without gas checks and I've had zero bore lead fouling. Not seeing lead fouling with cast 223 boolits either

[Mr Humble]

I don't know what you metal mix is, so I can't really comment. 5+ decades of shooting cast has taught me that 1700-1800 fps is about the practical limit of a very hard plain base bullet that is fully inside the neck. You're still on the edge of gas cutting which is what causes leading. The crimp on gas check allows you to push faster with more accuracy. As the 450 BM can easily exceed 2200 fps, I stick with GCs as lead removal is always a pain.

[kawasakifreak77]

I don't have one of these but a buddy does & boy is that a fun rifle!

He's not a reloader so he almost never shoots it, but wants to more. I've got some bullets laying around that should work & plenty of W296. Just need to find some dies & a few brass!

Interested to see what happens here.

[Artful]

I don't know what you metal mix is, so I can't really comment. 5+ decades of shooting cast has taught me that 1700-1800 fps is about the practical limit of a very hard plain base bullet that is fully inside the neck. You're still on the edge of gas cutting which is what causes leading. The crimp on gas check allows you to push faster with more accuracy. As the 450 BM can easily exceed 2200 fps, I stick with GCs as lead removal is always a pain.

the powder coating jacket is what allows more velocity without leading even without the gas check - see this thread
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...fps-or-greater

[tja6435]

Pic is upside down but it shows the Corbin style of swage on gas checks (base guards) I can make these in. 250gr, 310gr and 500gr weights with or without the checks. I just ordered the 1E punch for the nose, probably ordering a cup base punch as well soon. The alloy I'm using is wheel weights.

If you'd be interested in trying some of these out, I'd be happy to send some out if you'd share results with all of us. I run a 458 SOCOM and make the same bullets for it, just sized at .459" from a different die set.

[Mr Humble]

Wow Corbin style gas checks. I recall them from my original Lyman cast bullet book with the zinc washers on them.

I'm still messing with the Lee 300. Went and spent more money for the biggest SAECO metplat nose punch, SAECO 453 sizing die and crimp on gas checks. Had to open up the nose punch on a lathe. Then when you put the GC on the bullet and pushed it into the sizer most of the time the bullet would tip under the pressure to crimp the GC on, deforming one side of the bullet.

Next try. Lube the bullets in the .453 die with no GC. Worked fine. Put the GC on by hand, assisted with a gentle tap on the big flat nose. Then press them tail first thru a Lee .452 sizer which crimps on the GC but doesn't touch the lead. Now I have good looking bullets with a GC that won't fall off. Try and try again !

Tried some of the "all SAECO" done ones yesterday with 33 gr of 4198 @ 50 yards.
Total of 15 shot, 8" group with 6 on one ragged hole. Load is too light as I had two failures to cycle. In the 460 S&W they go up to a 38 gr with a 395 gr cast bullet, so I have some room to bump it up a bit. The 460 with the 395 is getting 1600 fps w/10.7" bbl so I believe 1500 with the 300 will be fine. When the boolits are good it shoots well. Ballistics are equal to the "old" 45-70 300

Now if I had it to do over again:
1. The Lee 300 mold throws fine boolits
2. The crimp on GCs (Ebay) are great
3. The bullets would be cast, pan lubed and extracted with a fired cut off 45-70 case. A harder lube than SPG is easier to pan lube with.
4. The gas check would be hand applied, perhaps with a tap to seat.
5. Push the GCed bullet backwards thru a Lee .452-3 die.
6. Be sure your seating depth and taper crimp ensures a solid thunk when the bolt is dropped.

I believe 2 MOA at 100 should be possible as my 450 will shoot factory into 1 MOA @100 with only a cheap Chinese scope.

More to follow after Speed Goat is put in freezer.

[Mr Humble]

1900 Mauser Werke Swedish/Danish 6.5x55 Sniper setup with 160 Hornady RN @ 2500 fps. Bang, Flop.


While waiting for deer & elk to open, played with the 450 some more @ 50 yards. Load was 33 gr 4227 w/300gr Lee GC.



1st shot was 1 @ 12 OC, 2,3&4 made group at 5 OC, 5,6&7 made group at 1 OC,
8&9 are closet to center.

W/O the stringing and shot 1, it would be a 1" group. I shot them all in 10 minutes, so the barrel was warm @ the end.

No question of the rifle's accuracy as it will cloverleaf 3 factory rounds @100 yds.

With the 4227 load I had 2 failures to feed with the next shell 1/2 way out of the magazine. Bushmaster/Remington lower that has never malfuctioned with 223 or 300 B/O, so upping the charge is next.

IME with cast boolits since 1958, stringing is often a velocity issue.

Bright sun, 50 degrees and blowing like H**l ....... lousy for deer or elk.

[Artful]

Interesting adjustable mold design

to

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....pic,426.0.html
it's for paper patched .458's but if you powder coated it,
I think it would work in 450 Bushmaster, but as it doesn't have
Gas check step you'd either have to use plain base gascheck's
or make 'em heavy so you'd keep velocities down to avoid gas cutting.

[Mr Humble]

Well I changed my method a bit. Rather than using the Lee .452 die to crimp the GCs on, I just set the SAECO to only crimp on the GC (uses a swing out arm designed for this).

If pushed thru or in/out both the Lee .452 die and the Saeco .454 were shaving on side of the bullet at the front. The Lee, probably because of size and putting the in base first to get the crimp on the GC. The Saeco appears to tip the bullet regardless of nose punch (I bought their largest which still has no wiggle room with the Lee bullet.)

The latest try was to crimp on the GCs with the Saeco segregate +-1 one gr and pan lube them. Bumped up 4227 to 36 gr (still one failure to feed)

Off to the range, 50 yards, no wind, no mirage and sent the 10 matched bullets on their way. At least the group was somewhat square save the flyer at 12 oclock.




Usually large cast boolits are quite easy to get to shoot. My MZ Whitworth replica will shoot groups 1/2 this size at 200 yards. Ditto my 400 Whelen, 450/400, 45-70 and 458 Winchester.

If I wear my Merit eye disc, I can shoot my Kimber 45 acp this well at 50 yards !!!!!
(mumble, mumble!)

I'm gonna sacrifice some of my H110 and Lil Gun (5 each) to see if that makes any difference. Also gonna load up 4 .452 Colt (not acp) 300gr jacked with 4227 and see what happens.

We're still have August in October here. So warm I doubt you could kill an Elk and get it out before it was rotten.

[Mr Humble]

Given up on 450 BM w/cast boolits. It just is not happy with them. No hogs running amuck in WY so it's going down the road. 300 Blackout is far more fun to shoot and very accurate. So are two 223s and one 308. (all ARs)

450 is great w/jacketed bullets but not what I mostly shoot.

[Mr Humble]

I'm all done with the 450 BM. If you want a mint upper, Hornady dies, ammo etc. drop me a PM.
I have it listed at the best price price on the net.

[archangel2003]

Humble, crimping is the area where this round requires a little more effort. You need to use the "thunk" test when adjusting the crimp die. Pull your upper and drop a loaded dummy round in, you are looking for the "thunk" sound as the case mouth hit's the end of the chamber. Too much crimp and the case mouth fit's past the end of the chamber and the round gets wedged in. I use a "waist crimp" die I made from a lee 45/70 FCD. It's modified so it puts a collet crimp on .1" below the case mouth. This gives me a solid crimp without reducing the diameter of the case mouth so I get reliable chambering and consistent ignition.
http://www.450bushmaster.net/viewforum.php?f=5

Just curious as I have a 45 Raptor (made from .460 S&W brass at .452 not .454) and can see the same issue being possible.
I'd like to see about crimping my cases below the case mouth and would like to know more about how you made your modifications to the die.
Ordering a LEE 90856 Lee Precision 45-70 Factory Crimp Die right now.
I assumed the crimp dies were simply tapered and would hit the case mouth and not go past it, and adjusting the die deeper would just push harder against the case mouth just making it tighter and with a smaller OD.
Go too far crimping to tight and no more head space as the case mouth slips past where it's supposed to head space from.

[Moiecol]

Dear Humble, I'm from the year 2023 and we are yet to find load data and rounds are still scarce. You posted in 2014 and you'll think by now something would be available by now.
🤔🤔😳🙄😂
One day it will happen !!!