Finally I get a decent load for my 77/357 rifle with cast boolits

[Larry Gibson]

Camba
What you seeabove is very old data and notice it is for H110.....the old military surplusH110. New H110 and 296 are the same powder made at the same plant. Any variations in new load data for either will simply be due to lot to lotvariations and variations in testing. I'm using Lyman manuals; 3 of them. CBH #3 only lists one load for 296 under the 358156 in the.357Magnum. That is 15.6 gr. CBH #4 and the 49th Edition of the LymanReloading manual do not list 296 but list H110 which is the same powder. They both list 15 - 15.7 gr under the358156. Hodgdon's site, (the maker of both powders), does notlist a cast bullet load for either powder.

I found long ago with rifles in .357, 44 and 45 pistol calibers that the topend handgun loads (magnum level) with PB’dcast bullets are usually not accurate in rifles. The reason is the higher velocities. FB’d aren’t as bad as BB’d and really hardcast FB’d do the best. However, GC’dbullets almost always give the same accuracy potential as jacketed bullets atthe same magnum level velocities. Aquality GC’d cast bullet such as the 358156 cast of COWWs +2% tin or #2 alloy,lubed with a good softer lube like BAC or a NRA 50/50 and sized .359 - .360 andloaded over maximum revolver loads of 2400, 4227, Blue Dot or H110/296 shouldgive very good accuracy, at least what the rifle is capable of. The only caveat should be throat issues asBullshop mentioned. The Lee 158 GC’dcast bullet should also be a good performer as should the RCBS 38-158-SWC. The RCBS heavier 357-180-SIL might also begood but I’m not sure it will fit the magazine of the 77/357 when seated to thecrimp groove(?).

Larry Gibson

[Island Trash]

I am getting consistent 3/4 inch groups at 50 yards with a load of 6.0 grains of Green Dot under a Saeco 382 158 gr SWC plainbase in Starline brass with CCI small pistol primers. My keg of Green Dot is pretty old, still in the cardboard keg, but I have about 6 pounds left.

I have floated the barrel and done a bit of trigger work. But it is one of the best loads I have found. I believe the 6.0 grains was the book starting load. I went higher, but groups fell apart. Not sure on velocity, but it would be a "light" magnum.

I tend to shoot a few hundred at a time when I can get to the range with it.

[robg]

my win94 likes 8.5g true blue with rcbs 158g gc or 11.5g 2400 with rcbs180g gc sil bullets. 2.5inch groups at 100 yards .3inch at 25yards. if i could shoot it would probaly do better

[lmcollins]

Gentlemen: just thinking about your problem. If you think that the lead angle of your chamber is too abrupt you can take a cast pure lead muzzleloader ball and press it gently up in the throat to check the lead angle of your chamber, and then gently push it out from the muzzle. Use small light taps, and a gentle push to remove the slug/ball.

You are only trying to check the leade angle, and remember that the difference between a land and a groove is only .003 or .004 of an inch. One of the old Precision Shooting writer used to chamber his barrel, and then mount a jacket bullet on a length of rod and then polish the ends of his leade with fine compound to the slight extent of polishing the small burrs off of his chamber's leade angle.

If it were my rifle I'd take a 357 case and progressively drill its flash hole until it admitted a 35 caliber jacketed rifle bullet like the Speer 220 grain, mark it with a marker to check its contact with the chamber's leade. I'd then gently put some fine lapping compound on that point of the bullet and see if I couldn't change my chamber's leade angle to make it more gentle an included angle. Slow, careful, and re-slug.

It's a rifle, and all you are doing is changing your leade a bit. The best thing would be to buy a 3 degree throating reamer from someone like Manson, or Clymer.

I have had many of my chambering reamers throats removed so that I can throat for mag length. I had the throats
removed from my 6.5-06 and 6.5x55 Swede reamers. I think I'd do the same if I were to buy a 7x57 reamer. A throat can always be made deeper.... You cannot put metal back.

[Camba]

I like the idea of the gas check test. I don't have a mold yet to do that but soon I will. I have one in the 44 magnum with gas check and it does shoot great (in a revolver at least). I have not tried in a rifle.
Camba

[Camba]

FLHTC,
I believe I have that data somewhere. I bought some of those "one caliber loads" in multiple calibers. I have not found my 357 mag loading book but it looks so close to that.

[taco650]

To follow up on Larry's comments about h110/296. I've read the warnings about trying to download these two powders and tried myself to get accuracy from the "starting" load listed in my manuals. My results have shown that the best accuracy always happens close to the maximum charge.

[rollmyown]

I've not experimented with mine much yet and am using a light load of Trailboss behind the Lee 125gn RF at subsonic velocity. Not great accuracy, but OK on small game out to 75 meters. Works like a 22LR on steroids with plenty of knockdown.
Is it just the 357's that have accuracy issues or does the 44mag have issues too?
What are the theories? Caliber? 2 piece rear locking bolt? Other issues with the rifle?
I'm determined to stick with mine and get it to good hunting accuracy within the limitations of the round.

[Camba]

I have the 77/44 mag rifle also but I have not tried to find a good load for it yet. I have shot it a few times and I thought it shoot good but nothing to brag about. I like to find the load that I can use it with cast boolits and have enough accuracy to make it worthwhile reloading for it.
I took my 77/357 this afternoon to follow up in the range with the 125gr TCFP Missouri Bullet Co. cast boolit and I tried 2 loads. The 5.2gr Bullseye and the 5.5gr Bullseye with the rest of the components being all the same (i.e. 125gr TCFP, WSP, ... etc.)

[Camba]

I will definitely add the 357 GC boolit for my 357 rifle and if I can find one in 125gr GC too.

[Bullwolf]

I also own a Ruger bolt action 77/357 rifle.



While I have not yet tried Gas Check boolits in my 77/357, it shoots J-word stuff fine. It also shoots my favorite Lyman 358311 cast 357 magnum load well (a mid-range Blue Dot load) at 50 yards, and to the same point of aim. I tend to cast that boolit pretty hard, out of a mix of Lino and Monotype.

Looking at the rifles leade, it is pretty sharp and abrupt. This rifle would likely benefit from pass with a throat reamer, or at least a mild lapping of the starting edge of the rifling/throat.

It's a very hard thing to take a picture of in detail.



The majority of the shooting done with my 77/357 is plinking, or ringing my 50 yard gong from my porch. I don't shoot it at paper very often. I got it to be a companion for a 357 revolver.

I have an older paper target, back from when I was sighting in the scope.



The previous hits covered with target dots, were from me walking the scope in.

That target was shot at 50 yards on 6/7/12 when the gun was brand new. It had only just been cleaned, after bore sighting the scope.

I was shooting Fiocchi 357 magnum 142 grain FMJ/TC to sight it in, the lower hits were a few rounds of Winchester White Box 38 special 130 grain FMJ to see my holdover between the 38 and the 357 at 50 yards.

I also checked my heavy 357 magnum JHP 158 grain Blue Dot load, and my Lyman 358311 cast 357 magnum load. They both shoot to the same point of aim at 50.

My 77/357 will keep on a paper plate at 50 yards easily using either factory ammo, or my hand load. I have not set out to shoot it farther, as shooting around 50 yards was pretty much all that I wanted it for.



- Bullwolf

[taco650]

Those 75 yard targets easily look "minute of deer" to me.

[Camba]

You are right taco650.
This rifle has shot 1.5" at a 100 yds with j-words using magnum loads with H110. I 've just don't have lots of bullets (j-words) so I am looking to the cast boolit alternative to keep having fun and continue to shoot. And yes, I should be able to drop a deer at 50 to 75 yards with it.
In the past, I was having a hard time getting significant groups with cast boolits because I was using nearly the same powder load as the ones with j-words. After reading multiple advice in this forum, I started to look for accuracy first, velocity second.

[Camba]

Bullwolf,

You got a good rifle.

[taco650]

Camba,

I've been casting the Lee 310 gr FPGC sized to 430 for a few years now the best loads I've found for my SBH revolver is 18gr of 296. My SBH has the stock 7.5" 1-20 twist barrel. However, I can't get this same boolit to shoot decent groups in my Dan Wesson 6" 44mag regardless of the powder or amount that is behind it. It really seems to prefer 240 gr pills, either cast or jacketed. It also does well with lighter jacketed slugs too.

Obviously a revolver is a different animal than your rifle so none of this may help you. What's the twist rate your barrel? If its on the slow side its going to prefer lighter bullets. I'd try a gas check design as you can drive them faster without the leading issues. Fit is also important. Its better if they are oversized than under and a lot of commercial cast boolits seem to be on the small size from what I've observed.

[lmcollins]

Still this throat thing has not really been checked out.

Remember: most cast bullets for the 38/357 are made to shoot in a revolver, and are used to having the forcing cone of the barrel "align and throat" them as they leave the cylinder. So: the throat of a rifles chamber is very important.

If you can shoot your cast bullet at high pressure into your rifle's chamber throat there is no reason that you cannot take a cast bullet and drop it into your rifle's throat with the muzzle pointed down and gently tap it into the throat to see what you have got for a throat, and then push it out from the muzzle into a rag stuffed into the breech. Someone do so, and show us what you have.

I suggested lapping with a Speer rifle bullet because they have a long tapered ogive, and would give a longer tapered throat leade. To test the throat edge concept just test with what you have. You do not have to make an entire throat impression to check the edge of the leade.

[taco650]

Still this throat thing has not really been checked out.

Remember: most cast bullets for the 38/357 are made to shoot in a revolver, and are used to having the forcing cone of the barrel "align and throat" them as they leave the cylinder. So: the throat of a rifles chamber is very important.

If you can shoot your cast bullet at high pressure into your rifle's chamber throat there is no reason that you cannot take a cast bullet and drop it into your rifle's throat with the muzzle pointed down and gently tap it into the throat to see what you have got for a throat, and then push it out from the muzzle into a rag stuffed into the breech. Someone do so, and show us what you have.

I suggested lapping with a Speer rifle bullet because they have a long tapered ogive, and would give a longer tapered throat leade. To test the throat edge concept just test with what you have. You do not have to make an entire throat impression to check the edge of the leade.

What if you tried a round nose style boolit? Most cast boolit designs for revolver cartridges flat nosed with a wide meplat so a short or non-existant leade would cause alignment problems. Might look into a truncated cone shape nose also.

[rockshooter]

I'm getting excellent accuracy and 1805 fps in my 77/357 with the NOE version of the 358477 GC. I use 15.1 gr of H110.
Loren

[rollmyown]

I'm getting excellent accuracy and 1805 fps in my 77/357 with the NOE version of the 358477 GC. I use 15.1 gr of H110.
Loren

What size groups at what range?

[Weaponologist]

I've got a 77/357 and I started with 38 first. I found a great load for 38 and will probably start with the cast boolit I found for that when I do the 357.
I'm using a 147gr LRN with 4.4gr. of Unique powder. I've been shooting ragged holes at 50 yards so far..I'll get pictures and post them. I use the Lucky 13 boolits .358 because there more of a long boolit and seem to have great Accuracy. And it's local Boy's that make them so I'm a little prejudiced in that regards. Got to stick with your peep's in the Mother land.....lol....