The fallacy of blind brand loyalty

[rondog]

I started riding at 14, I'm 58 now. I love Harleys, particularly older ones like pre-'83. I don't really give a rat's rear end for any newer Harleys, and I despise the Harley Davidson Motor Company because of their business practices. I'll NEVER buy a new HD, only used ones, and likely nothing made after the Shovelhead era.

I rather enjoy tinkering on them and fixing problems, once they're ironed out they're quite loyal bikes. But IMO, a motorcycle is supposed to be a MACHINE. A shaking, clattering, noisy, leaking, assemblage of mechanical parts that scoots down the road, a moving adventure. Precision bikes don't hold much attraction to me, and I have no use for any kind of electronics on a bike, whether it's a stereo or electronic controls. Gimme a smoking old Panhead anyday!

JMHO, but I'm not a heavy rider or long-distance rider. If I were a tourer, it would be a different story. I'm more of a "wheee" rider, just out for short afternoon adventure rides. My poor old beat-up broken-down body won't allow otherwise. If I tried to ride several hours or several hundred miles, I'd be incapacitated for a couple of days. I could do that in my yoot, but not now.....

[southpaw]

Kawasaki quit making the KZ1000 Police Bikes in 2005 when the tooling in their Nebraska plant wore out. Until then, I saw a lot more cops on those than Harleys and I suspect they still would be if they were being made now. When you consider the Z1 was introduced in '73 and basically the same big, air cooled, inline four design was still going more than 30 years later, that's a pretty good design and production run.

Not trying to bait but curiosity has got the best of me since I don't know anything about motorcycle history. Why didn't they reinvest in new tooling? I just don't understand why one would quit making something that has been successful for so long. I supose others have done the same too tho.

Jerry Jr.

[Petrol & Powder]

Not trying to bait but curiosity has got the best of me since I don't know anything about motorcycle history. Why didn't they reinvest in new tooling? I just don't understand why one would quit making something that has been successful for so long. I supose others have done the same too tho.

Jerry Jr.

Just a pure guess on my part and I have no facts to back this up. I suspect that with BMW and HD controlling the vast majority of the police bike market, there was little room left for Kawasaki. It would take years to recover the cost of a major retooling and if they couldn't re-take a large enough market share, that could be a very costly decision.

BMW has a huge portion of the police motorcycle market overseas and they are making serious advances into the U.S. market.

[Rick Hodges]

Kawasaki quit making the KZ1000 Police Bikes in 2005 when the tooling in their Nebraska plant wore out. Until then, I saw a lot more cops on those than Harleys and I suspect they still would be if they were being made now. When you consider the Z1 was introduced in '73 and basically the same big, air cooled, inline four design was still going more than 30 years later, that's a pretty good design and production run.

Aha the police bike wars. I can't speak for any other departments but mine went to Kawasaki's for the simple reason that they were given to us. Free, gratus. Good advertising it seems. As soon as the free bikes stopped coming they bought Harley's. Neither bike was exactly maintenance free, and they were all useless in bad weather. Police bikes were great for parades and showy escorts and such....not very practical if you wanted to do police work.

[richhodg66]

Aha the police bike wars. I can't speak for any other departments but mine went to Kawasaki's for the simple reason that they were given to us. Free, gratus. Good advertising it seems. As soon as the free bikes stopped coming they bought Harley's. Neither bike was exactly maintenance free, and they were all useless in bad weather. Police bikes were great for parades and showy escorts and such....not very practical if you wanted to do police work.

I'm not a police officer and never have been, but I always did kind of wonder how much good a guy could do as a cop on a motorcycle anyway. You're awfully vulnerable on one and the kinds of bikes for police work are all so big and heavy they really won't go anywhere a car can't go. Then there's the fact that you can't carry anybody you arrest on one and a lot of other shortcomings, it seems like a waste of department money to even have motorcycle cops.

I have been kind of watching that Zero Motorcycle Company that is making electric bikes. There are a few departments out in California that have mounted patrols on them. According to what I've read, the electric bikes basically have the same capabilities that a 250-450 cc Enduro would have, which might make them useful in urban places where a light bike could chase a suspect places a car couldn't.

[richhodg66]

Not trying to bait but curiosity has got the best of me since I don't know anything about motorcycle history. Why didn't they reinvest in new tooling? I just don't understand why one would quit making something that has been successful for so long. I supose others have done the same too tho.

Jerry Jr.

Kawasaki had stopped those models to the civilian market a long time before 2005 and had gone to liquid cooled designs for the most part by the mid to late 80's. I have an '83 KZ1100, which is basically the same bike, but it was about the last year they made them. They were very good machines in their day and can still hold there own with some pretty modern bikes, but the advantages of fuel injection and liquid cooling are very real.

[andremajic]

If you want something that will hold it's value, buy gold, silver, or farm land.

[pmer]

An old Harley will teach you how to work on something. I learned about locktite and double nutting. Mechanical advance and broken wires. The best upgrades I did to my shovel head was a Crane HI 4 solid state ignition, a S&S shorty carb and solid state ignition switch. After that it was pretty much put gas in and ride. It is kick start only, I still have it but I haven't touched it for a few years now.

I have to agree they are pretty successful while being so backward. Had my share of fun with it. My uncle had a old Indian that was a in line four. He sold it before my time. He said the rear cylinder got pretty hot and would over heat.

[TXGunNut]

I'm not a police officer and never have been, but I always did kind of wonder how much good a guy could do as a cop on a motorcycle anyway. You're awfully vulnerable on one and the kinds of bikes for police work are all so big and heavy they really won't go anywhere a car can't go. Then there's the fact that you can't carry anybody you arrest on one and a lot of other shortcomings, it seems like a waste of department money to even have motorcycle cops.

I have been kind of watching that Zero Motorcycle Company that is making electric bikes. There are a few departments out in California that have mounted patrols on them. According to what I've read, the electric bikes basically have the same capabilities that a 250-450 cc Enduro would have, which might make them useful in urban places where a light bike could chase a suspect places a car couldn't.

The big bikes are all about generating revenue working traffic. They're very quick compared to today's patrol cars, they're damn hard to outrun with anything other than a superbike and they can work in places a car can't. Never seen the little electric bikes in action but I was a bicycle cop for several years until I retired. Great for concentrated patrol, working dope, crowds and bar districts. Super stealthy in the dark and I even worked a bit of traffic now and then to prove a point. Transport was not an issue, we'd stash a car with a bike rack nearby to transport prisoner and bike securely.

[alamogunr]

If you want something that will hold it's value, buy gold, silver, or farm land.

Gold was at $1861/oz in October of 2011. This morning it was at $1280/oz. Granted if you held it long enough and bought it 10-12 years ago, you might still be ahead but it just sits there and doesn't earn anything. I don't follow silver and can't afford farmland(Don't know anything about it anyway).

Most of my retirement funds are in stocks. By using a small amount of good sense, you can ride out fluctuations in the market. One way of doing this is to not spend money on all the fluff created by advertising.

BTW, despite having withdrawn significant amount from those savings, I've still got almost as much as I did 5 years ago.

Rant over! Also, andremajic, you didn't start this. Friends who are much more vocal set my teeth on edge some time ago.

[MT Gianni]

I like thumpers, currently have a DR 650 Suzuki. Next one will probably be a V-Strom. I see too many riding HD just to ride in a crowd.

[richhodg66]

I like thumpers, currently have a DR 650 Suzuki. Next one will probably be a V-Strom. I see too many riding HD just to ride in a crowd.

I absolutely love my KLR650, if you can only have one motorcycle, a big enduro is the one to have.

You looking at the 1000 V Strom? I got one when I retired, a 2004 and used it on my 75 mile each way commute for most of a year. Very reliable and low maintenance, smooth, powerful and with the factory hardbags on it, I can carry a lot of stuff. Fast too, you can kick that up to 100 MPH and just cruise like there's nothing to it on the slab. I rode it from here to Fort Knox in one day for a work function last summer, about 600 miles and wasn't particularly worn out when I got there. Any other bike I've had would have been a real challenge to make that trip in one pull like that. I still have it, haven't been riding it much. The newer ones are supposed to have quite a few upgrades.

[Ramar]

I still have my '56 Panhead, 236,000 miles, exPD bike. Ten inch over girder P&P fork and Avon 21" rubber with a rigid rear it's super light and right with all HD non essentials removed. I bought it from the LEO who received it as gift when he retired from the force. I still have all the original removed HD parts.

I can't kick it over anymore but I'm sure my wife can, but that ain't gonna happen, she'd tell me to get on the pillion and hold on......
Ramar

[pmer]

They say imitation is the best form of flattery. The big four copy the look and feel of a big twin Harley Davidson and Buel used the Sportster engine and copied a Sport Bike. My BIL had a Buel, he let me try it and it handled speed much better than my Superglide. I nailed it up to what I thought road speed should be and I was doing 85 MPH in a 55 MPH. I kept the Superglide, the sportbike has its place just not for me.

Those Pan Heads have a slightly different sound and are way cool. I rember trying to start my buddies one time because his leg was sore. I had to kick it a lot harder than my Shovel before it would finally start. Over the years I can remember columns of Harleys leaning way over in high side winds going on a straight road, pouring rain water out of my boots and seeing sparks from bikes leaning into the curves. Some might think that "potatoe..potatoe" sound of a big twin idling is odd but to me its music.

[andremajic]

Gold was at $1861/oz in October of 2011. This morning it was at $1280/oz. Granted if you held it long enough and bought it 10-12 years ago, you might still be ahead but it just sits there and doesn't earn anything. I don't follow silver and can't afford farmland(Don't know anything about it anyway).

Most of my retirement funds are in stocks. By using a small amount of good sense, you can ride out fluctuations in the market. One way of doing this is to not spend money on all the fluff created by advertising.

BTW, despite having withdrawn significant amount from those savings, I've still got almost as much as I did 5 years ago.

Rant over! Also, andremajic, you didn't start this. Friends who are much more vocal set my teeth on edge some time ago.

Not trying to convince you. Just saying gold, silver or farmland would be a better "investment" than a harley.

[alamogunr]

Not trying to convince you. Just saying gold, silver or farmland would be a better "investment" than a harley.

Agreed! Lots of things are better "investments" than a Harley. Apparently, many here consider it an investment in fun. Different strokes for different folks.

[Just Duke]

Not trying to convince you. Just saying gold, silver or farmland would be a better "investment" than a harley.

I'll have to agree. Set aside the cop magnet they are also. I don't want that sort of attention. I had enough of that with street rods in my youth.

[Just Duke]

Agreed! Lots of things are better "investments" than a Harley. Apparently, many here consider it an investment in fun. Different strokes for different folks.

I gave up fun as a youth. My agenda post "toy time" is now food production related.

[trails4u]

This is fun....I LOVE my Ducati. All the sound....and reliability to boot! Now, let the games begin.....