So if you wanted to slug hunt with a 20 gauge......that is too tight for slugs...

[MaryB]

Been using 12 gauge slugs for deer for years. Longest shot was 115 yards to drop a nice doe. That was with a well used 870 express with the standard barrel(couldn't afford a rifled barrel back then). Got used to it and never saw a reason to upgrade barrels.

[adanymous]

Under sized slugs could harm the barrels?????? First I've ever hear that. Any info is appreciated but slugs have been shot out of ALL kinds of shot barrels for longer than Ive been alive. I've never heard of damage from such unless slug was larger than the choke. I DO appreciate the info but explain please?

God Bless

I probably should add I have at my disposal the 350JR round in a rifle I had built should I wish to shoot deer long range. This isn't intended as something "Better".....just fun.
The buck I shot last year was less than 15 yards. If it can hit a dinner plate regularly at 25 yards, I can whack something. Limiting myself to SHORT range is not a bad thing to me. Adds some sport to it. 99 brown and down, the majority shot with a longbow and home made wood arrows. I'm ok with really short range.

IMHO......my 100th deer should be something fun, something different and this is what I chose to do it with, if at all possible. Nothing else. Just a personal quest.

I have nothing to add to the shotgun conundrum just wanted to say you're a guy with taste. Ive killed more than a pile myself, and now Im a self bow and cane arrow guy for the most part. Or ill use my flintlock, that is until the wife tells me its freezer filling time, then I break out the old savage 99. Im gonna use my 300aac suppressed this year for one, just cause it was just legalized and Ive never done it. But then, back to the Flint Lock or Bow. Those just seem to make it mean more to me, and be more respectful to them.

[Paul Tummers]

Those Sauvestres are wild, both in performance and in price, I agree!
We do not need many of them, just do have a couple of them in our pockets for the occasion a wild boar is sighted in close range when hunting small game.

[W.R.Buchanan]

IndySteve: I just knew you'd figure it out.

I am in CA so the idea of using slugs for hunting never was an issue here. However I do use a slug load for shooting 3 gun matches and those are known as Pumpkin Balls. IE .662 round balls with a 1/4" felt wad loaded into my standard Trap Load. They are accurate to 60+ yards and hit like a bus. But the recoil is the same as my normal Trap Loads which I can shoot a bunch of in one sitting.

On another note, I just bought some Federal .410 slugs for My M6 Scout. I was very surprised to find 125 gr slugs at 1700 fps from a .410. That is above .357 power!, and brings that gun to a whole different level of usefulness. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a Deer sized animal with it in a survival situation. Maybe out to 30-35 yards.

Randy

[Paul Tummers]

I once owned an old BP cape gun made by Imman. Meffert in Suhl; side by side hammer gun, left barrel smooth bore 20 gauge, right barrel rifled, also 20 gauge and a set trigger for the right barrel. Both barrels were chambered for the 2 1/2" rounds. This gun had beautiful damascus barrels and shot a slug cast from soft lead with a weight of 24 grams. It has been used in the past several times to down a bull that escaped from the abattoir with a one of those slugs and my uncle who owned that gun at that time claimed, he never had to shoot twice.

[rjhasbeer@gmail.com]

I saw a u tube video where they cut almost halfway thru the shell on each side a little above the base of the shot cup. When shot the entire outerplastic cylinder and shot charge went out to the target like a slug. It would be an inexpensive way to see what pattern and accuracy you get.

[grampa243]

I saw a u tube video where they cut almost halfway thru the shell on each side a little above the base of the shot cup. When shot the entire outerplastic cylinder and shot charge went out to the target like a slug. It would be an inexpensive way to see what pattern and accuracy you get.

this is actually a very bad thing to do. it raises the pressure alot and could ruin the chokes if not the whole barrel.

[IndySteve]

I appreciate the info but had seen the "cut shell" process before. Scares me and I'm fearless.

ESPECIALLY in a tight choked gun.

I like messing around with options, even those not tried by others to my knowledge, but if my brain starts waving red flags.......I listen.

I'll have to pick up some .575 balls and some spacer wads to see what Ill need to get the right height in a shortened shot cup or if the cupless plastic wads are long enough as is, which I doubt but Ive never handled one.

I have a sneaking suspicion those French "arrow slugs" (the name I'd have to go back and copy and paste. I cant say that let alone remember it!) would "work" but I have an email off to both the mfg and the US distributor asking about the resiliency of the sabot and if they have an estimated MINIMUM bore size diameter they would fit through...........but.......

Loading my own sounds like a heck of a lot more fun.

If I dumbed into a really nice buck (and that is all it would be but it does happen) and whack it with a side by side 20 ga and hand loaded round balls........the local deer "egg-spurts" would have convulsions.

I guess that makes me kind of rotten, huh?

I don't hang my head in shame, like the local inch hunters think I should because I openly admit I am a MEAT hunter. I've shot some nice bucks and a bigger one would be nice.......so would a 200 lb doe, IMHO. I've always been a meat hunter, pretty much but the "how" I took them has always been up there on some scale used at the time. Still is.

In the decades I've viewed the changes in hunting, especially DEER hunting it seems to ME that many have forgotten this is supposed to be FUN and while "productive" is the end goal too, having fun DOING it is mandatory for me.......or I wouldn't do it near as much.

To each their own but when I hear some of the locals say "Man, I just want to shoot one and get it over with. I'm wore out!".........I can only shake my head in sympathy but I keep my yap zipped unless someone happens to notice the look on my face (sadness) and ask.

I think this ol double is "home" to stay. As funds allow I have an itch for a 16ga in IC/Mod or one I can have professionally opened up to the old common European "1/4 and 3/4" chokes on my wish list but other mandatory priorities keep interfering with my "fun".

Lots to do loading and patterning various shot and shot sizes and trying different spreaders and have till Nov to worry about slug loads so.....no rush I guess.

I guess too that now that I am on limited income due to physical issues, what I am able to buy and put a feasible package together with, makes each item a bit more appreciated as well. What I am blessed to take WITH such is doubly so.

Glass half full..........that isn't a "bad thing" though, not IMO.

God Bless!

[Cap'n Morgan]

I understand your reluctance to alter the gun. Personally, I wouldn't hesitate for a second before opening the chokes on any shotgun tighter than modified, but that's just me

[GhostHawk]

I used to shoot almost exclusively little fork horns and young does. Lets just say I had a taste for young and tender Guys in the crew gave me a hard time saying I should be pushing hard for a big buck. Naw, when I'm ready, he'll come. Meantime that young tender stuff tastes great and is good on the grill. 3-4 minutes on a hot grill, flip it and 3-4 more but have everything else ready when you put them on cause you need to eat them while they are HOT.

Eventually of course that big buck did come along, and if he was bigger than any they had shot is vindication, LOL well so be it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Steve those pumpkin ball loads I described above will work exactly the same way in your 20 ga. As far as ball sizing goes you need a ball/ wad petal thickness that is right at or slightly smaller than the choke ID. IE measure the Choke ID with Calipers and then the thickness of the Petals of your wad and what ever is left is the size of the ball.

In my case with a cylinder bore 12 ga it was .662 + .035+.035 = .732 My bore is .735 so the fit is perfect.

This load is 20 gr of Green Dot with a WAA 12 wad normally with 1 1/8oz of shot. I replace the shot with a .662 Ball atop a 1/4" felt wad to cushion the ball. The wad also brings the ball right up to where the level of the shot normally is so that the crimp folds shut just like it does with normal shot load.

This load has the same or less recoil than my regular trap load with #8 shot.

The key to getting this to work right is obviously the fit of the ball/wad in the barrel and the height of the ball in the hull which will govern how well the crimp closes.

Lots of info in the Casting for Shotguns section.

Randy

[IndySteve]

Good Stuff. Thanks bunches for sharing that. I'll take a look.
God Bless

[W.R.Buchanan]

For what you are trying to do with your gun these will work perfectly. it is just a matter of finding the right sized ball.

Mine Is a Lyman Round Ball mould and they make a variety of sizes that will cover many different bore dias. I would start looking for a ball mould there.

After re reading your OP I see you have a choke dia. of .584. so your ball is going to be in the .525 range for use with a plastic cup wad which will be the best way as it will seal the bore best. Another way would be to trim the wad petals down to where they are below the ball in which case you could use the larger ball.

The other way to go is to load the hulls old school with card style wads and use and over shot card and a Roll Crimp in which case the .575 ball would work OK.

Ballistic Products has everything known to man as far a shotshell loading components.

My last comment is,,, don't try to load these to Warp Speed Velocities. It is absolutely not necessary for what you are trying to accomplish.

If you can duplicate a normal factory 7/8oz Target Load it will be more than sufficient for knocking down the short range Bambi of your choosing. A load that generates 11-1200 fps will be pleasant to shoot and do the job just fine, and it will not stress your gun at all.

If you were going to shoot a large bear then I would say juice it up a little, but if you were going to shoot a bear with a shotgun you'd probably be better off with a 12 ga. any way.

Randy

[DougGuy]

Man, I gotta tell ya, that ol' girl is SO NICE LOOKING, please just leave her alone and hunt deer with a different gun okay? They just don't MAKE guns like that anymore, and it looks to be in such pristine shape it really deserves more of a place of honor above the mantle than to be toted around the deer woods.

There are any number of good deer guns on the market, the choices are manyfold, pick one and let that nice ol' girl be appreciated as a symbol of times long gone in these United States Of America.

[masscaster]

Shot cup & Round ball works great!!

[Larry Gibson]

I usually hunt slugs with and air rifle. I find a common match WC does very well on the garden and lawn variety. Sometimes I load the WC's backwards for the mondo HP effect on them! However, if in the rain forests of the coastal mountains or the Cascades and hunting the Greater Horned Slugs I'll switch to my RWS M54 with Crosman Premiers. At 800 fps the round harder alloyed domed pellet gives the needed penetration on large "boss". If I have to go "sort things out" with a rogue I'll switch to a CF rifle with heavy for caliber softer cast bullet in the 1050 - 1150 fps range. A WFN bullet makes a good "stopper" when they charge.............

Larry Gibson

[44man]

Steve those pumpkin ball loads I described above will work exactly the same way in your 20 ga. As far as ball sizing goes you need a ball/ wad petal thickness that is right at or slightly smaller than the choke ID. IE measure the Choke ID with Calipers and then the thickness of the Petals of your wad and what ever is left is the size of the ball.

In my case with a cylinder bore 12 ga it was .662 + .035+.035 = .732 My bore is .735 so the fit is perfect.

This load is 20 gr of Green Dot with a WAA 12 wad normally with 1 1/8oz of shot. I replace the shot with a .662 Ball atop a 1/4" felt wad to cushion the ball. The wad also brings the ball right up to where the level of the shot normally is so that the crimp folds shut just like it does with normal shot load.

This load has the same or less recoil than my regular trap load with #8 shot.

The key to getting this to work right is obviously the fit of the ball/wad in the barrel and the height of the ball in the hull which will govern how well the crimp closes.

Lots of info in the Casting for Shotguns section.

Randy

Been there done that. Like having someone pitch the ball and trying to bat it into a deer.

[IndySteve]

Man, I gotta tell ya, that ol' girl is SO NICE LOOKING, please just leave her alone and hunt deer with a different gun okay? They just don't MAKE guns like that anymore, and it looks to be in such pristine shape it really deserves more of a place of honor above the mantle than to be toted around the deer woods.

There are any number of good deer guns on the market, the choices are manyfold, pick one and let that nice ol' girl be appreciated as a symbol of times long gone in these United States Of America.

Many would agree with you but when it comes to a fine old shotgun such as this double that has been neglected for decades I feel more than a bit of satisfaction by allowing it to join me out where it was made to be used......in the field.

While it would more serve my purpose OVER ALL to open the chokes and use it mainly for upland game, the gun was choked to do something particularly well, in fact, at distances far and away further than I would have ever guess such could ever successfully repeat those same distances and kills.

While not "perfect" for upland game with such tight chokes, a little effort on my end will make it more so without alterations and still allow it to be a FINE 20 gauge waterfowl and turkey gun with standard loads for such. Open the chokes and it would never again do ALL of that.

While in time another double will join it in my home, for now the ol double is "it" and the goal of combining the gun's abilities with mine is just part of the game.

With a few years left (I hope) to enjoy it in the field, I also feel the gun deserves more than to sit on the wall, unappreciated. Someday after I am gone, and the boys and their families deem that it is worthy, then.....it will be on the wall in a remembrance of the ol man along with photos of game taken with it.

Perhaps it's best described as just the fact that I have gotten old and hunting means more to me now than ever even though I've drove my family nuts hunting all I could since pre high school and , hand in hand, the firearms of choice NOW are quite dissimilar to the ones in the past, most of which I regarded as nothing more than a tool.

An old double has never been in that classification and while I had new doubles years ago, it's not quite the same but even as a young man out whacking and stacking them........I knew I would spend my last years with a side by side slung over my forearm for as long as the good Lord allows.

Some may jump in and say it wasn't MADE to hunt deer. Tough to tell. In 1950 there wasn't a deer "season" here in Indiana. People just shot them for meat and bet they shot them with whatever gun they had in hand..doubles included.

One thing I need to do is tear apart an old Remington Slugger. The largest complaints on this slug is that it isn't large enough in diameter until fired and an unfired slug will fall though standard slug gun barrels. Before I go off half cocked I need to check one of these out.

Loading my own still sounds fun but the much lower velocities I see in most slug loads further limits the lighter slugs or balls for such a shotgun and I have no desire to add more to the risk of wounding a deer than necessary, least of all just because it's a bit more fun.

So much information here and I thank you all. Ill have to check out the Slugger and may yet try some balls too to compare but the factory fodder is ON PAPER the more lethal of the two, even at close range.

God Bless and thanks to all, once again.
Steve

[longbow]

Not sure what size the Remington sluggers are... now at least. My understanding is that Foster slugs all used to be considerably undersize to bore diameter. I do not know if that is true but I read an article some years ago that stated that federal upped the diameter of their slugs to bore diameter then other manufacturers followed suit and overall accuracy improved.

I cannot verify that but I can say that my Lyman Foster slug mould in 12 ga. casts a 0.705" slug which is certainly undersize for a nominal 0.729" bore. However, after recovering slugs shot into deep wet fresh snow I can certainly say that a soft lead slug cast at 0.705" obturates to fill a 0.729" bore. I can also say that of the several I recovered, the skirts and noses were all "cocked" as the slugs were obviously tipped at slightly different angles when they obturated. And no, this did not happen on impact because they fit the muzzle after recovery.

So, the moral of that story is that regardless of being undersize when they started out, they obturated to fill the bore so IF a choke was present they would have to swage down to get through the choke anyway... so why on earth would anyone want to start with an undersize slug that has to obturate? Might as well start with bore size and either way, home cast or store bought those same slug have to swage down through a choke safely. So they should go through your chokes safely.

Accuracy, now that is a whole different issue.

If you try Remington sluggers, you may find that they shoot quite well, even through your chokes. I shot Federal factory Fosters through my Browning BPS with I/C choke and they shot extremely well. In fact I wish I could get home cast slugs to shoot that well.

I still lean towards round balls though, and again, I think you will get a 0.575" ball to meet or exceed BP muzzleloader velocities and no-one complains that a .58 cal round ball from a muzzleloader is lacking for close range deer hunting (within 100 yards). I still maintain that accuracy will be your limiting factor, not killing power so you need to sort out what your maximum range for hunting accuracy is then stay within that limit.

For sure, try out the Sluggers and see how they do but also check terminal performance of both sluggers and round balls.

Again, just my opinion.

Longbow

[44man]

long ago when I needed a shotgun in Ohio, I tested everything. But went with a flint lock in the end. Winchester slugs always won out, Rem second and Brenneke missed paper most times at 50 yards. Scoped shotguns from a rest.
Hand loads always had a problem with what is behind the slug or ball. Shot cups are destroyed with slugs or balls.
BPI came out with a new cup that failed and is gone from the site. I have their slug loading book and no loads are accurate enough for deer.