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Thread: Small primer cases for the 45-70

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimB.. View Post
    With that mindset you probably shouldn’t be reloading, it seems like there have been far more kabooms from charging or powder mistakes than from this as yet unconfirmed risk. Probably should stop driving too.

    Sorry if that comes across as snarky, I’m just unhappy about the state of fear in America.
    Yeah snarky fits ! -= please yrself - you wanna be that feller ? go for it - not my fingers - there is some perceived risk for no practical gain is the main point - no practical gain using a round nose boolit in a tube mag as compared to a flatpoint so why bother? I agree the powder mistakes way more likely to cause grief.

    almost 70 and still got all me fingers and toes and never bent a set of wheels (heading for two million miles and I was not the old dude holding up traffic either!!!) - dont think I have a mindset problem - nor a fear problem.

    ps google it - the henry story checks out as does some of your contention regarding 30/30 etc -------round nose boolit + federal pistol primer + dumba$$ in a hurry loads ten and drops the follower under full spring tension = kaboom!!!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by indian joe View Post
    Yeah snarky fits ! -= please yrself - you wanna be that feller ? go for it - not my fingers - there is some perceived risk for no practical gain is the main point - no practical gain using a round nose boolit in a tube mag as compared to a flatpoint so why bother? I agree the powder mistakes way more likely to cause grief.

    almost 70 and still got all me fingers and toes and never bent a set of wheels (heading for two million miles and I was not the old dude holding up traffic either!!!) - dont think I have a mindset problem - nor a fear problem.

    ps google it - the henry story checks out as does some of your contention regarding 30/30 etc -------round nose boolit + federal pistol primer + dumba$$ in a hurry loads ten and drops the follower under full spring tension = kaboom!!!
    Didn’t find the Henry story, but did find this old thread which included copies of an interesting article testing the effect of a mag tube detonation as well as more detailed discussion about the origin of Buffalo Bore’s use of small primers in 45-70.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ine-explosions

    FWiW, I am a rather cautious person, and while I trail you by some 15 years I also have all my bits.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimB.. View Post
    Didn’t find the Henry story, but did find this old thread which included copies of an interesting article testing the effect of a mag tube detonation as well as more detailed discussion about the origin of Buffalo Bore’s use of small primers in 45-70.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ine-explosions

    FWiW, I am a rather cautious person, and while I trail you by some 15 years I also have all my bits.

    Jim
    The henry detonations would be a fairly unique set of circumstances for sure and dropping the magazine follower was part of it. I got a bit touchy about the boolits I was shooting in my 1876 - that was the LEE 405 HB - when I lined them up nose to tail the nose although fairly flat would fit inside the diameter of the primer pocket - full magazine is a pound of ammo and when that lot moves there is noticeable shunting effect - plus with a 45/75 there is a bit of recoil. I took that mold and milled a touch off the nose till it was impossible for that detonation to happen - I am now totally relaxed about cranking that gun with a full magazine - it didnt hurt at all. If this was a really serious problem there would be a load of stories from the 7 million or whatever model 94's out there (most of those boolits dont have a big enough nose to prevent pushing into the primer pocket some)

  4. #24
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    Between Hornady making short cases and now small primers.....really screwing up a good cartridge for no good reason. They ought to call it something else so we can ignore it and keep using a good case.

  5. #25
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    It's just more stupid stuff to take care of a non existent problem.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by flint45 View Post
    It's just more stupid stuff to take care of a non existent problem.
    ahh ha - but theres a lot of underworked overpaid lawyers out there and their main task is to find a tiny chink in somebodys armour so they can get a payout (for that non existant problem)

  7. #27
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    Rattlesnake Charlie's Avatar
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    This thread sure got off track. Wasn't the OP discussing pro/con of small primer pockets on .45-70? Disappointing.

  8. #28
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    Well I’m still using my original 50 Starline 45-70 brass from a few years ago, and have two more unopened 50 packs. If i ever do have to order more I’ll have to be careful not to order small primer pockets.

    I know that it sure is a PITA having to sort out the small 45 acp
    Plata o plomo?
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Charlie View Post
    This thread sure got off track. Wasn't the OP discussing pro/con of small primer pockets on .45-70? Disappointing.
    Jeez Charlie you a drill sargent or somthin? its all around the percieved need (magazine detonations) or not - round nose boolits or not - big primers or lil ones - we only missed the mark with two posts and not by that much

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Charlie View Post
    I have not heard of any problem. I only load bullets with a sufficiently large meplat to avoid this potential problem for my Marlin. The Sharps gets some pointy ones that I would never load for the Marlin. They are probably too long anyway to make it through the loading gate anyway.
    They can make it in the gate of the Marlin, but will not make it back out. I know, I have done this.
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  11. #31
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    Never had a problem with my large primers, think its a ploy. A small primer might not be as consistence as a large.

  12. #32
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    A timely article on this topic. I hope it uploads successfully.
    Attachment 222554

  13. #33
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    I think hollow point boolits are probably the safest.
    Attachment 222794

  14. #34
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    Read the article I posted in #32. It is not the point they are necessarily concerned about. A large meplat bullet while being loaded could contact the center of the primer in the tube ahead of it. Interesting. It obviously happened as seen in the photo. I load big meplat bullets, but use very soft lead. Hope I get by.

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    In a discussion, some years back, with Tim Sundles, the Buffalo Bore honcho, this topic came up. He was loading his ammo to serious thumper levels and has several Marlin leverguns come back to him with blown rounds in the mag tube. It would appear, as the rounds moved up from the tube, there was a point where the sharp edge of the bullets meplat came in contact with the primer in frot of it. With enough recoil, this could and did cause problems.

    Tim's fix, was to have Star-Line make up cases with small primer pockets. This seemed to cure the problems. Star-Line refused to sell these cases to the general public, which I think is still their policy.

    Whether or not a small primer is a good ideal in such a large case is another matter. For Sundles, it fixed a liability problem.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check