20 gauge rifled slugs and round balls?

[GoodOlBoy]

I have searched and dug, and I cannot find the two pieces of information I am really looking for so i thought I would post and see if you fellers knew off the top of your heads.

#1 Does ANYBODY make a mold to cast a 20 gauge rifled lead slug like you find in the remington sluggers?

#2 What caliber round ball would you use for a magtech brass hull in a 20 gauge?

Thanks

GoodOlBoy

[ksfowler166]

#1 From the picture the slug looks to be a foster type slug which is a common slug mold.

#2 What type of accuracy are you looking for? The only components you can use in a Magtech hull are card/fiber wads. With the hulls being significantly larger than bore diameter I think accuracy would be horrible. I would recommend Rocky Mountain Cartridge brass hulls instead. As to what diameter of round ball that depends on your chokes but any ball to big for a wad would be a starting point.

[GoodOlBoy]

#1 yep should be a rifled foster type, but i can't find anybody who makes a mold for it, and the old style molds where you cast then swag to get the "rifling" (yeah I know it isn't actual rifling it just helps swag the slug through the choke) I have only ever found in 12 gauge. I need 20 gauge. These have been incredibly accurate in my old single shot 20, where the smooth sided fosters I got from a buddy to try.... well not so much.

#2 Yep. BUT I already have magtech hulls, and can't afford to buy more hulls at the moment especially at $6+ a pop for rocky mountain hulls. I already have wads, I already have powder primer, and brass...

I should have included this will be only shot from a H&R single shot with a fixed modified choke. 50 to 60 yards max in heavy brush would be the shots from this old shotgun. If it will hit a piepan at that range, it will kill a deer at that range. So instead of sub-moa let's call it sub-piepan....

Thanks

GoodOlBoy

[hatcreek]

Home > Shot & Slugs > Slugs > Slug Molds

Lyman 20ga Foster Slug Mould

Item Number: 1

Lyman foster slug mold $71.99 at BPI W/O handles, check amazon the prices are always less then anywhere else as far as I can find.
For a round ball load for smooth bore modified choke I load up a .575 round ball in a waa20 wad with 2 1/8" felt wads under ball in a AA Winchester on top of 17gr of Herco, Winchester 209, the wads I punch out with a 1/2" hollow hole punch, the round ball mold is from LEE about $20.00, from Titan, its a great mold and cast great. Hope it helps. HC

[ksfowler166]

I should have included this will be only shot from a H&R single shot with a fixed modified choke. 50 to 60 yards max in heavy brush would be the shots from this old shotgun. If it will hit a piepan at that range, it will kill a deer at that range. So instead of sub-moa let's call it sub-piepan....

Good luck but I don't think you will even begin to approach a 50-60 yard load with 24ga card/fiber wads. There is a reason that as soon as the foster slugs came out everyone forgot about the RB loads and before the introduction of the foster slug people used cut slugs and wax slugs instead of round balls. They were just not accurate.

[cpileri]

I got very good round ball accuracy from a smoothbore in this post, reply number 6, load "A":

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post2750206

they are very low power and i think i am giving up on "slugs in a non-slug gun" (for now), but accuracy was there.
C-

[GoodOlBoy]

thanks for the info guys, and the post on the round ball loads. I have seen the lyman foster mold, but I was wondering about a "rifled" version of the same mold. The smooth sided fosters don't seem to group up as well for me as the "rifled" remington factory loads do.

Thanks

GoodOlBoy

[GoodOlBoy]

Alright well we will see how well this works out for me. Thanks for all the advice by the way guys, and for the links.

I just purchased a Lee Single Cavity Mold 578-475M which is a custom overrun mold in their clearance section. http://leeprecision.com/new-mold-sin...-578-475m.html Been looking for an excuse to buy a clearance section mold, and this seemed like a good one. I had the thought (maybe wrong I don't know) that if a .575 ball would work a .578 Minnie (which looks like a TL design to me) SHOULD work down the tube of a 20 gauge with a fixed modified choke. Don't worry I will do more measurement before I actually drop the hammer on one. If my calculator is correct (heck it may NOT be ) then it should drop at just over an ounce for the Minnie. Heck I don't know by the time I get it in and get a few test cast it may be an obvious blunder on my part. But we will see.

GoodOlBoy

[TheGuyFromSouthamerica]

I am unsure as well if the Lee .562" mold round ball will fit well in an 20 ga shotgun wad (modified to improved cylinder choke).

Has anyone an personal experience which round ball fits perfectly in an 20 ga wad?
Any experience to use these .562" round balls as tri ball or duo ball in an 12 ga shell?

[cpileri]

I use .52 cal RB in triball 20ga w PT2092 wads.

The 12ga triball recommends .60-ish cal balls in PT orange wads.

[TheGuyFromSouthamerica]

Yes but if you put 3 .60" lead balls into the 12 ga shell you get 325 grains for each ball that is total 975 grains of weight. I fear that will make explode the shotgun since pressures are driven skyhigh in an normal shell made for about 1 oz weight (about 437 grains). I do not believe I can put 3 balls of cal .60 in an shell made for 1 oz. In that case I may put in a single ball only.
Same applies for 20 ga. A round ball of cal .52 weights 212 grains and 7/8 oz is 383 grains. So even with 2 cal .52 balls I surpass the max weight the 7/8 oz shell is mde for originally.
I do not change the powder just opening birdshot and stuff into the wad the round ball and shoot it. I modify existing birdshot to slug or round ball loads.

[cpileri]

well, that does change things. yes, you are best staying w the same payload weight as the shells you are modifying.

[TheGuyFromSouthamerica]

I posted here a new Thread of the 7/8 oz Lee drive key reloads and some of my weapons. Tell me what you think.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...and-my-weapons

[Blood Trail]

I load 3 .60 cal 330 gr balls in a 12 ga steel wad with no issues.


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[GoodOlBoy]

Yeah gave up even worrying about that front stuff mould after the cancer surgery (not allowed to play with lead for a long long time). Buddy of mine gifted me two ten round boxes of 20 gauge double ball loads from herters(cabelas) for a hog hunt that now won't be happening. If I shotgun hunt this year I will try them after I pattern them a couple of times. Otherwise for now it is a moot point since I can't cast lead for the foreseeable future and I don't know of anybody making candy coated (pc'd) round balls that might work.

God Bless, and One Love!

GoodOlBoy

[TheGuyFromSouthamerica]

Dear GoodOlBoy,

The most important is you enter heaven if you die and do not go to hell. Therefore you have to accept Jesus Christ as your savior and all casting and reloading is meaningless.
So strive then for the most important thing (to be a real Christian) and let the world behind you. Heaven is anyways better then this rotten world were you can wote eighter for Osama or hillarious.

[longbow]

GoodOlboy:

My guess is that you are suffering from the same issues I did with the Lyman Fosters. Mine in 12 ga. cast very much undersize at 0.705" so rattles down the bore... well not quite as they slug up if cast from soft lead. The problem is that they are so undersize they are not centered when they slug up and slugs recovered from deep soft snow show that they are bore size after firing alright and the noses and skirts are cocked and uneven being different on every slug.

As you said, the old smooth Lyman Fosters were meant to have rifling swaged on them after they were cast and my gues sis that the moulds were made undersize so that if let's say 0.010" deep rifling was swaged into them then the displaced lead would be about 0.010" high so increasing diameter from 0.705" to 0.725" which is near bore diameter.

Not sure if the 20 ga. version casts as much undersize but my guess is that it does so there is no way you will get good accuracy with that. Why Lyman has not recitifed this is beyond me.

Another issue is wad column. I do not think it is very easy to get the consistent solid wad coulmns that the factories do when reloading at home.'

I have had excellent accuracy with factory Foster slugs but have never managed to duplicate that consistently with handloads even using meticulously assembled loads from reloading manuals.

SluggerDoug posted how he managed to get good accuracy from a Lyman Foster slugs and that involved essentially swaging rifling onto the smooth slug bringing it to bore diameter. The "bore diameter" being the key.

Personally I do not think the rifling has any benefit at all and that a slug swaged up to bore diameter using a punch and die (or chunk of 12 ga. barrel) would work as well. That is pretty easy to do.

No-one makes a mould for rifled slugs because you would not be able to get a two piece mould open if it had any more than 4 straight ribs on it with 2 at the parting line. Rifling has to be swaged on or cast in a push out style mould with an ejector. I have made straight rib moulds like this but again found that the ribs do not make any difference (in my experience anyway).

I will second the recommendation for round balls in shotcups. You should be able to buy the size you need so no casting required. Easiest with a round ball of a size that drops nicely into a shotcup. if undersize it can be patched up with cloth or paper to snug fit. I always use a notro card wad or two in the bottom of the shotcup and a scoop of Cream "O Wheat before the ball goes in. The purpose is to prevent the shotcup from trying to wrap itself around the ball at firing. I have recovered shotcups with failed bottom and gas seals due to this so started with the nitro card wads then added the COW. That solved the issue.

My good 12 ga. round ball loads will shoot into 4" or under at 50 yards consistently. Groups do start to open up much beyond 50 yards but may hold up well to 70 or so yards. You should be able to get the same accuracy with a 20 ga.

Good luck and take care.

Longbow