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Thread: Need your advice on blue dot for 7/8 slug and 00 buck

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Need your advice on blue dot for 7/8 slug and 00 buck

    This is my first post, so HELLO! I'm new to reloading and have an uncle that reloads and also lurks this forum. He's been helping me get started, but we can't find a printed recipe for what I have and what I want to do.

    Unfortunately I've chose to reload 00 buck and 7/8 slug (both are Lee molds) and powder availability in my area is almost non-existent. I would prefer to use HS-6 or Universal, since it will load EVERYTHING that I want, but I can't find either one. I do have a 5lb bottle of blue dot, but the only recipe I can find is for a 1oz slug. I talked to a local reloader who claims he just uses the 1oz recipe for 7/8.

    What are everybody else's thoughts? I have AA 2 3/4 shells.

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Can't help directly in that I have not loaded Blue Dot under anything less than 1 oz. In fact the 1 oz. balls I loaded were based on a recipe for a heavier slug and I was not sure they would work but everything went well.

    I can say that Blue Dot needs reasonable pressure to burn properly. I don't know what minimum pressure is required but I have had gas seals fail resulting in poor burn with Blue Dot, and I have used nitro card wads under slugs with no plastic gas seal over Blue Dot and gotten incomplete burn due to poor sealing. Lots of unburned powder in the barrel in both cases and less "BOOM" and recoil... noticeably less than with good loads of same charge.

    You could try it and worst case would be that you get poor ignition/burn and get a blooper then have to push the slug out of the barrel. More likely is that it will work but you may get incomplete burn and possibly inconsistent velocities. If you use a lot of wad pressure and a good roll crimp that should help get the Blue Dot ignited.

    I don't really see any down side to trying the 1 oz. recipe with the 7/8 oz. slug. Load up 5 or so and give it a try. If it works, great. If it doesn't no great loss. However, do not add more powder because you are using a lighter slug. That could be playing with fire.

    That's my take anyway.

    Longbow

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    It will work with the 1 oz loads included with the mold, but it will be dirty and inefficient---you'll run through a lot of Blue Dot this way. Remember that you can use trap load data (I like the "International" 24 gram loads that run 1345 fps) and any wad that will fit the slugs well. Faster burning powders will work better for the 7/8 slug, especially at reduced velocities. I like Federal 12S0 wads in straight wall hulls and genuine WinAA12 or WT12 wads in tapered hulls, but many more will work. Also, check out the Ballistic Products web site; if you look in their Load of the Week archive, there are some recent postings of new Lee slug loads with more modern components.

  4. #4
    In Remembrance

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    12ga Blue Dot recipes for 7/8oz weight(*):

    12 Gauge (Lyman Steel Shot Data) 2 3/4" Remington Premier/STS Plastic Shells, Fold Crimp - Steel Shot Reloading Data
    Printable Version
    Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
    Shot Powder Type Manufacturer Charge Primer Wad Velocity
    7/8 Ounce Blue Dot Alliant 33.5 Rem. 209P B.P. Ranger (see remarks) 1383
    Remarks: 10,000 psi; wad: One B.P. Ranger plus One 20 ga. 1/4" felt under shot, 13.0 grs. B.P. #47 buffer, One 20 ga. .030" card over shot
    7/8 Ounce Blue Dot Alliant 34.5 Win. 209 B.P. BPGS (see remarks) 1402
    Remarks: 8,900 psi; wad: One B.P. BPGS, One B.P. BP12 Tuff, 13.0 grs. B.P. #47 buffer, One 20 ga. .030" card over shot
    12 Gauge (Lyman Steel Shot Data) 2 3/4" Winchester HS or Compression Formed Plastic Shells, Fold Crimp - Steel Shot Reloading Data
    Printable Version
    Warning! Notes: Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook - 5th Edition
    Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
    Shot Powder Type Manufacturer Charge Primer Wad Velocity
    7/8 Ounce Blue Dot Alliant 35.5 Win. 209 (see remarks) 1370
    Remarks: 11,000 psi; WAD: One R.S. SAM I-2 3/4", One 20 ga. 1/8" felt under shot
    12 Gauge (Lyman Steel Shot Data) 2 3/4" Winchester Polyformed Plastic Shells Plastic Basewad, Fold Crimp - Steel Shot Reloading Data
    Printable Version
    Warning! Notes: Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook 5th Edition
    Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
    Shot Powder Type Manufacturer Charge Primer Wad Velocity
    7/8 Ounce Blue Dot Alliant 32.5 Win. 209 (see remarks) 1280
    Remarks: 7,500 psi; WAD: One B.P. BPGS, One B.P. BP12 Tuff, 13.0 grs. B.P. #47 buffer, One 20 ga. .030" card over shot



    (*) you can generally safely use shot weight for slug since sidewall pressure from slugs, esp hard cast, is less than w shot. There are some caveats, and admittedly most want higher velocity from their slugs, but its a start.
    ____________
    "...the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.” -N.Postman

  5. #5
    In Remembrance

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    Sorry its all from steel shot data. and hope you can see the image.
    C-
    ____________
    "...the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.” -N.Postman

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Well that is downright interesting! I would not have thought that such light loads of Blue Dot would generate pressures as high as in the first two recipes. There is some of that shotshell reloading black magic and just another reason not to play around with components or charges without a published recipe.

    I do not have that manual so will look back in my manuals to see if I have anything similar.

    Longbow

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    Methinks that big load of buffer has something to do with the high pressure. Don't ask why I think that!

  8. #8
    In Remembrance

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    I think its the turkey ranger wad- those things are thick and tough. combine that with a bunch of non-malleable steel pellets and pressure goes up. just my guess though.
    C-
    ____________
    "...the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions." In 1984, Orwell added, people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure. In short, Orwell feared that what we fear will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we desire will ruin us. This book is about the possibility that Huxley, not Orwell, was right.” -N.Postman

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
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    So load data for 7/8 shot is the same as 7/8 slug? I thought there was a difference, especially since a different section of the books are dedicated to slugs and none of those recipes are listed there.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    As the other folks have noted, I would not assume that buffered steel shot loads would translate to lead slug loads on an ounce-for-ounce basis; indeed, these loads are, in many ways, the opposite of slug loads. The Lee slug data for 1 oz loads calls for 49 grains of Blue Dot (that's a lot!); a 7/8 slug would require even more powder to get the same pressure and velocity, so you will almost certainly get bloopers with 32-35 grains of Blue Dot. If you're going to try it, start with 49 grains of BD in one of the recommended wads (WAA12---can sub WT12) and use a Fed 209A primer (could sub a CCI mag 209.) I'd stick to a tapered hull as well (Win or Rem) to ensure proper combustion.

  11. #11
    Boolit Mold
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    I have lots of the Winchester waa12 wads but all of my primers are wolf 209, any issues with these primers?

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Generally speaking shot loads are loaded for velocity of around 1200 FPS +/- for consistent wing shooting. Pressures can range from mild to wild as long as velocity is consistent. Typically target loads use small charges of fast powder.

    Slug loads tend to be loaded for max. velocity for a given set of components... at safe pressure but usually at the upper end.

    What is generally acceptable is substituting an equal weight of slug to replace shot. Slugs do not have as much bore friction so will run at somewhat lower pressure and possibly a bit higher velocity.

    having said that, I am not sure how that philosophy translates to steel shot recipes though using Blue Dot it would not worry me... as long as all components and powder charge remained the same.

    What surprised me a bit is that Blue Dot is usually loaded for magnum shot, heavy buckshot and heavy slug loads. It does like pressure to burn correctly. I have not seen light load/charge recipes using Blue Dot and by the charges listed I would have guessed light loads except the first two have quite high pressures. Odd when one considers that a 610 gr. slug recipe I have calls for up to 44 grs. of Blue Dot yet these 7/8 oz. loads are in the mid 30 grs. It must be the other components that produce the high pressures. Just part of that black magic thing I mentioned.

    Just another reason one should go messing with things unless loads are based on published data and cross referenced and/or you have lots of experience.

    Longbow

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    I would NOT pull the trigger on the load you suggest full tang - too much guess work there!

    We were posting at the same time longbow.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hi All,

    Don't mean to sound crazy with the huge load of Blue Dot, but here are the official Lee loads for their slugs:

    http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/SM%203529.pdf

    Of course, that 49 gr BD is the max load for a 1 oz slug, but my point is that you can reduce the charge too much. It will be safe, in that it won't blow up your gun; however, the next shot will blow up your gun, because you could have a squibbed slug lodged in your barrel if you try to get by with 32 grains of Blue Dot and a 7/8 oz slug. Been there, done that! Well, I didn't blow up my gun, but I did get a slug stuck in the barrel; I realized what was going on and took everything apart before trying to fire another round. In my case, it was very cold, and I didn't have a magnum primer, so there were multiple problems with the load, but I had a batch of 10 rounds loaded that way (if I recall correctly, it was 33 gr of BD, 7/8 slug, 12S0, Top Gun hull, Fio 616 primer), and I think 4 of them were squibs! My point is that sometimes we worry so much about too much pressure, when too little pressure can cause problems, too.

  15. #15
    Boolit Mold
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    I really appreciate the info. I guess I could always try a batch being careful to make sure the slug leaves the gun the whole time.

    What about the 00 buck? Any suggestions there?

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master

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    00 buck I can probably help you with.

    I have the BPI buckshot reloading manual. Recipes are somewhat limited but IIRC there are some for Win AA hulls.

    There should also be recipes in the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Manuals of which I have three editions.

    I will try to take a look later tonight or tomorrow.

    Longbow

  17. #17
    Boolit Mold
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    Between my uncle and I, we have many manuals, but nothing is listed for blue dot, waa12 wads, 2 3/4 shells and 00 buck.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    It is my understanding, Blue Dot is not a good cold weather powder. I shot some in South Dakota, late in the year that didn't seem to perform very well and this was before I was told Blue Dot wasn't a good cold weather powder. Looking back, it could be it isn't a good powder to use when it's cold. You might get a totally different performance if you develop a load when it's 90 degrees and when you try to use it at 20 degrees. You could throw a couple of loads in the freezer for a while and take them out and shoot them before they warm up and see if there is a difference. I have a bad feeling about Blue Dot in the cold whether it is justified or not, I don't know.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have had it explained to me this way and I believe it be good advise. Now I am paraphrasing so bear with me. There is no such thing as a cold weather load. Loads that perform poorly in colder weather are poor loads to begin with, at any tempature. As such they should not be used. If a proper load is used, temperature has no effect on the loads performance.

  20. #20
    Boolit Mold
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    Longbow, any luck finding a recipe we may have missed for 00 buck?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check