300 Blackout Cast Hunting Bullets - Calling all Expansion Experts!!

[wordsmith]

I used strips of foil about 3/8" wide and about three inches long . A heap were pre-cut and placed in a handy position . After a little practice I found it easy to place the length of foil accurately between the mold halves.
Closing the mold holds the foil in position with some hanging out each side . Pour as normal . The boolits fall from the mold as normal and the foil can easily be torn off . A section of foil remains in the boolit .

This is intriguing, until I remembered you are post-pour drilling your HP's, where I'm casting with a single cavity HP mold (actually 5-cavity, 4 non-HP and 1-HP). I think it might still be worth trying and just letting the HP pin move / tear foil as needed when inserted into the mold. I expect it will not completely cut it and it'll still be in place to weaken the boolit walls adequately.

[Pink_Vapor]

Thanks for your extensive post.
I'm wanting exactly what you're chasing down. AR-15 300BLK 1/7 10" pistol length gas, TBAC suppressed for reliably hunting hog & deer.
Keep it up & I want what the final verdict is.

[Pink_Vapor]

it seems a poly tip would solve a couple problems, reliable expansion and feeding. I didn't see anyone selling just the tips, but I did find different sized poly balls for this purpose. I don't know i the outcome would be the same as the silicone.
http://www.swage.com/ftp/bballpg1.pdf
http://www.swage.com/

[Dinny]

Can I be added as your "friend"? With much luck us Hoosiers will be able to use CF rifles for deer hunting next year. I gave my mother a H&R Handi rifle in 300 BLK that she thoroughly enjoys shooting subs from. I don't have the budget, experience, nor time to test like you have. I'll watch this for more news.

Thanks, Dinny

[wordsmith]

Final update... At the suggestion of Heathydee, I spent some time experimenting with split noses using aluminum foil on non-hollowpointed bullets. This was done with the theory that the nice (relatively) wide meplat on the NOE 247 bullet would help provide sufficient force to push against the split ogive and cause mushrooming, or at least splitting. Based on water testing, this turns out to work very well.

The key was to have the split start no farther than approximately 1/16" from the tip of the bullet, or splitting / expansion was not reliable. You could certainly split the boolit all the way through the meplat, but I was concerned about bullets coming apart in my suppressor as a result of 1/7 twists, so I wanted to leave a little unsplit section at the very tip for insurance.

I also solved my accuracy issues with a combination of steps. Firstly, I had to up the BHN for the plain boolits to take the 1/7 twist rates. I'm using a 50% COWW / 50% SOWW + 2% tin mixture, for a BHN of about 11-12. The second step was to modify my Lee push-through sizer diameter from 0.309" to 0.310". Finally, and most importantly, I purchased a modified expander / decapper stem from Lee for my full length resizing die that was 0.002" larger than standard to provide 0.001-0.002" of bullet neck tension for the 0.310" boolits. These steps eliminated bullet distortion and tightened up my groups considerably.

I'll post up some pictures for discussion in the next few days, but I'm considering the experiment complete. I'm actually using both the j-word and split nose boolit designs for different setups. I'd like to thank Heathydee for his help, both on this forum and in PM's.

[pls1911]

I'm just starting into 300 BO with about the same NOE bullet/barrel set up.
I will be using MUCH harder (heat treated), gas checked, pc'd bullets, sized .310, so I expect fewer issues than you have experienced.
Regarding expansion, don't over think it...
I expect no expansion, and have never found any advantage on pigs, yotes or deer when the bullet punches through both shoulders and the spine... the normal situation with my 30-30 cast bullets at 1900 fps.
Bang flop, DRT.
I never find a bullet and critters drop.
Same for 45/70.

[wordsmith]

As promised, here's a picture of the expansion of 50/50+2% mixture with aluminum foil split noses, no hollowpointing. They were shot into water jugs and backstopped with sand, hence the rough finish and removal of Hi-Tek coating.

[wordsmith]

I'm just starting into 300 BO with about the same NOE bullet/barrel set up.
I will be using MUCH harder (heat treated), gas checked, pc'd bullets, sized .310, so I expect fewer issues than you have experienced.
Regarding expansion, don't over think it...
I expect no expansion, and have never found any advantage on pigs, yotes or deer when the bullet punches through both shoulders and the spine... the normal situation with my 30-30 cast bullets at 1900 fps.
Bang flop, DRT.
I never find a bullet and critters drop.
Same for 45/70.

We may be talking apples and oranges here. I've been referring to subsonic ammo going around 1030 fps, and from my numerous tests on pigs and coons, non-expanding .30 caliber boolits that function reliably in an AR are downright horrible on game. Even with the 0.150" meplat (about as big as will work in an AR), everything but a CNS shot allowed animals to run off, including coons. With the much wider meplat on 30-30 / 45-70 rounds and higher velocities, performance should be great as you've mentioned. Zero expansion with subsonic 300 BLK = zero performance, from my field testing on about two dozen test subjects. YMMV.

[Harter66]

I'm way late here in this thread. I'm probably throwing oranges in with your apples.

I have a home boolit a nice pointy 1 like the pointed boat tailed 250s. I need 1910fps out of the 200 gr boolit to make my required 1000ftlb @ 100 yd legal big game needs. It is dismal in 308,06 and even the 7.7 but it worked in a x39. Granted it has a 24" bbl but with a full load of 4350 it would cycle an sks. It will only clock about 1400 at mag length but continue to cycle. With 50/50 WW -1-20 I had .700+ mushrooms in several mediums. On the few that I HP'd I lost the nose but retained a 150 gr wad cutter . As low as 1200 fps .450 mushrooms weren't un common. The alloy was water dropped.

[trw1051]

Hello,
Thanks for all the great info. How do you skive the bullet nose? Thanks


+8

[runfiverun]

if you mean split he used foil in the tip of the mold to make them open easier.
you can use paper to do the same thing.

skiving is used to thin a shot shell hull into a taper and prepare it to crimp easier.

[xacex]

if you mean split he used foil in the tip of the mold to make them open easier.
you can use paper to do the same thing.

skiving is used to thin a shot shell hull into a taper and prepare it to crimp easier.

Now this might be something to try with the new Mihec blackout boolit Bill designed. You could put the foil strip right behind the hollow point by just marking the block with a sharpie. With the wasp waist, hollow point, and foil to initiate fragmentation I am sure you could get some satisfying results without to much work.

[Bigslug]

Sorry that I merely skimmed your post, but the gist I get is that you need a subsonic option that expands:



130 grain LBT flat nose from a Martini Cadet shooting a somewhat blown out 32-20 Winchester - very similar to the Blackout in size. The mushroomed bullet is 20-1 lead/tin and was moving in the ballpark of 1200 fps. It took three gallon milk jugs of water to stop it. The non-expanded one next to it is water-quenched wheel weight using the same powder charge. That one took nine jugs to stop.


The same 20-1 alloy in an NOE 180 grain .40 cal fired from a '73 Winchester in 38-.40 at about 1350fps. If I remember correctly, that one took four jugs to stop.

Personally, I'd cut noses back on pointy bullets to see how large a meplat your upper will feed reliably, find or order a mold that matches that, cast harder (which should help your accuracy) and not sweat expansion.

[JDNC]

Wordsmith, Thanks, for this thread! Exactly what I'm trying to do.
I have PC'd an Accurate Mold #31-235P sized .309-.310" and have consistent groups under 2" at 100yds with some around an inch. But this is useless if they won't expand. I can't wait to try heathdee's idea. I also want to shoot these through closed silencer and am very interested to any future information you might have to your bore and can since you have a bore scope.

I have not at this time shot any (cast) through my can (scared to) but will this week. I'm an old fart that has shot many rounds gas checked and I have seen GC's stuck into my start screens! I know how to seat them, crimp on etc., and I for one don't want to use them through my new silencer either as I know sometimes they come off at the exit of the muzzle.

Please keep this thread alive! The only thing the BLK needs is a bullet that performs on game at subsonic velocities!

JD

[LongRangeAir]

I'm Way late to this thread, but may-be this can help. I'm shooting a .257 cal. at 1020-1030 with a good suppressor. Accuracy is under an inch at 100 yards, and expansion is excellent.

I recovered a bullet last week what went .501". Everything that I have shot has been DRT! Instant kills.

I saw where you hp'd the J-word bullets, and how you did it, but not how you were doing the Cast bullets.

In talks with Eric at HP Mold Service, Eric pointed out a HUGE mistake many make in trying to HP their bullets on a lathe, or drill press. Its' all in the angle of the HP cavity. Eric pointed out that the HP cavity walls need to be at a steeper angle than the ogive of the bullet it's self. If this is not done, the taper of the ogive will try to push the bullet nose towards it's center. In other words, collapsing the bullet nose, or bending it. Exactly as your pic's show.

I have done a LOT of testing in this regards, and I have found this to be Exactly Accurate advice.

Here's a little trick I picked up. If you have a screw bit set with some star drives in it, select one that is just smaller than the opening of your HP. Press it in by hand. Firmly, but don't ham fist it. It will cause the HP to open a 6 petal flower. Sorta like the old Talon was Supposed to work, but never really die.

I have also used square drive bits, and they open beautifully, but hit at a different poi. About 2" high, and 2" Right in my gun at 100 yd's.

One other thing, when you simply drill the HP, you leave a sharp shoulder at the bottom of the HP, causing the (what would otherwise be called the mushroom) to be sheared off). This is Bullet failure., and not what your looking for at all.

I cast at pure lead, 2% tin, and have a touch of antimony in the mix at the moment.



I live aprox. 10 mi north of you near Killeen, (Fort Hood). Send me a PM and I will give you my number if you like.

KnifeMaker

Pic of the boolits, along with two shots from cold barrel. One solid, one HP. Note the very small difference in poi . These were at 76 or 80 yards. Don't remember which. LOL

[wordsmith]

LongRangeAir - thanks for the input. Lots of interesting information there. Very clever on the star bit to serrate the inside of the hollowpoint. I've put this experiment on hold, waiting for the new Mihec boolit to continue this research.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...er-HP-GC-or-PB

[LongRangeAir]

We've been plagued with possums and squirrels lately. So far, these modded bullets are opening fast. With instant kills. Beautiful full mushroom's from the .257 in the .50+ area of expansion. I'm really pleased with the results.

Barrel is 1/14" twist at 1020 fps. 81 grain bullet Noe, RanchDog, HP'd by Eric for varmint at my velocity. The star marks in the HP really caused a more violent expansion, yet, no blow up. The HP's have a 6 petal mushroom that follows the marks left in the cavity from the bit.

Lead is Pure+2% lead/tin, with traces of antimony in it.

Knife

[ka30270]

tag for later reading

[pls1911]

I'm way late to this conversation, but gentlemen, you're overthinking expansion.
Yes, it's beneficial, but how many men died in wars to non expanding bullets... many instantaneously.
Penetration has its profound benefits as well when recognized and utilized.

I've never had a raccoon, armadillo, or coyote run away from a properly placed (non expanding solid) .22 shot either, or other edible "tough" targets several times their size...
If the .22 can do it, then the non expanding hard cast 30 blackout slug at the same velocity can certainly perform as well.
We're not at war stateside (except perhaps with pigs), so there's no excuse for broadside butt shots or other poorly placed slugs.

The good element of a 247 grain NOE Blackout bullet is the you can put it between the eyes of an average pig... even when properly aligned through the bung hole bulls eye.

A 160 grain alternative is the SAECO #316... a sweet slug in most any .30 cal.

Be realistic about your round, your range, your ability, and your gun. You will do fine.

[Boolit_Head]

I've never had a raccoon, armadillo, or coyote run away from a properly placed (non expanding solid) .22 shot either, or other edible "tough" targets several times their size...

Uhhh I have, took a raccoon one night at a feeder that sat through 5 hits with a 22 before he had enough and ran away. One was right through the boiler room and he made it 200 foot after the 5th round. Tough old coon didn't know he was supposed to fall over I guess.