7.7 Arisaka Help Needed

[jlh]

I plan to load for this rifle. What is the process for forming brass from 30.06, and what steps are involved? Since jacketed bullets are nonexistent at this time, I would like to shoot cast, at reduced charge-weight...What mold would you recommend? I don't want to have to mess with gas-checks, but plan to cast from straight wheel-weights. Lastly, I have found some 7.7 PRVI Partizan brass...Is this brass any good, or would I be better-off just to form my own, as referenced above.......Any, and all help is greatly appreciated....Thank you for your time.

[Scharfschuetze]

The Prvi Partizan brass is pretty good so you really won't have to form cases. If you do decide on forming them, you can do so easily from 30/06 brass in your full length sizer. I use Lake City 30/06 brass, but I'm sure any quality brass will do. My mid-war production Arisaka has a fairly large diameter chamber, so I only neck size after the initial forming and sizing.

Bore diameters seem to be all over with Type 99 rifles. Mine is pretty large and as best as I can tell is .315. Other members here report smaller bores. At a guess, Lyman 314299 or 314284 would be good molds to consider. I just received a 316299 mold from NOE for my larger 31 calibre military rifles and I hope that it will do well in my Arisaka. All the above boolits are gas check boolits and my molds accept either Lyman or Hornady crimp on GCs without any issues.

Wheel weight alloy should get you up to a reasonable velocity for plinking, so the classic mid range load of Unique powder should work for you. Lyman Cast Bullet Manual Edition 3 lists a starting load of 10 grains for both the above projectiles at 1,150 to 1,200 fps. Like all the mid size 30/31 calibre rounds, the 7.7 is not too fussy about powders. At Lyman's starting load's velocity, you should be able to get good results without gas checks. Try 'em both ways. I generally have better accuracy with 'em on, but I shoot 'em a little faster than the starting load.

My Type 99 shows a marked ability to string groups vertically if the load is not uniform in velocity. If yours is like mine, strive for a small extreme spread in your velocities when you develop your loads. Of course I guess that applies to any good load.

[wallenba]

Pretty straight forward conversion. You can just resize 30-06 in 7.7 FL sizing die and trim. Better results with passing the 30-06 through a Redding 7.7 form and trim die first, then FL. When I tried without the Redding die, some of the brass would flow or fold into defects. Sizing down the 30-06 case will result in a thicker case wall in the neck. If yours is like mine, the chamber neck will have enough room for expansion, probably even with a .316 boolit. Mine has a chrome lined bore, so wear was minimal. The Metford rifling confuses me a little when measuring a slugging, but I size to .314, all seems well.

The old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (Third Edition) has some load data. This data was re-typed for you here. Best to check me for errors first. You will note that many of the loads for a given powder are the same or very close.

If you decide to use one of these molds, check some of the reviews first to see what others say about the 'as cast diameter'. Larger diameter molds of the same weight will also work for you. Such as the #314299.

More useful info here> http://home.comcast.net/~gavinsw/gun...itaryrifle.pdf

#311299 200gr. 3.005" OAL
Red Dot Start 10.0 Max 12.0
700x 9.5 11.5
PB 10.5 12.5
Unique 10.0 14.0
2400 21.0 24.0
IMR-4227 28.0 30.0

#311466 151gr. 2.844" OAL
Red Dot Start 10.0 Max 12.0
700x 9.5 11.5
PB 10.5 13.0
Unique 11.0 15.0
2400 22.0 24.0
IMR-4227 28.0 30.0

#311284 210gr. 3.005" OAL
Red Dot Start 10.0 Max 12.0
700x 9.5 11.5
PB 10.5 12.5
Unique 10.0 13.0
2400 21.0 24.0
IMR-4227 28.0 30.0

[Eddie2002]

I've been resizing 30-06 brass for both my 7.7 Jap rifles with no problems. Both of the chambers are a bit generous and will give a little bulging of the cases. Once fired I run the die down just enough to resize the neck and try to leave the shoulder and rest of the case alone. It is a poor man's neck resizing and as long as I keep the brass seperated according to the rifle it works fine. After 5-6 reloads I'll full length resize. I anneal the brass before working it, run it through the FL die, I'm using a RCBS die, trim a little long, resize a second time and then final trim to length. It is more work but seems to give better results.
I would slug the bore before buying a mould bcause the bores are all over the place with an Arisaka. One of mine slugs at .311 while the second with a chromed bore must of seen service because the throat is worn out to .313 with the rest of the bore at .312.
I'm just shooting low powered 100 grain plinkers over 5-6 grains of Bullseye or Greendot so I can't recommend any heavier boolit moulds. They are a fun rifle to shoot an can be as accurate as any other military surplus rifle out there.

[madsenshooter]

I'd spend my money on a large mold, one of the NOE 316 molds. You can always size down more if needed. I use their 316365 spitzer in a Krag, sizing the bullet, which drops at .317" first to .314" and then to .311. I give them some heat treatment after that to relieve the stresses I've put in. NOE has several .316 designs and weights. I've found that harder alloys tend to work better in metford rifling.

[Noffsinger]

I use an RCBS case form / trim die to make mine from once fired range pick up brass, annealed before forming.
I have worked up the following loads for my Arisaka. ( Gas checked and sized to .314" )
Velocity provided by Shooting Chrony F1 chronograph at 12 ft, all are 10 shot strings.

7.7 Japanese
Bullet Wt..........................Powder........Chg...Ve locity...........Stats
125 gr Ex-treme Plated.....Longshot.....14.4....1820....(1802/1831 = 29 SD)
200 gr Lyman #314299....Longshot.....14.4....1529....(1522/1536 = 14 SD)
200 gr Lyman #314299....WC867........47.7....2022....(2006/2053 = 47 SD)

[3006guns]

Your statement that "jacketed bullets are nonexistent at this time" simply isn't true. Any jacketed bullet suitable for the .303 British or 7.65 Mauser (Argentine) is perfect. If you're ever stumped for load data, just use .303 British data......perfectly safe as the Japanese modeled their 7.7mm cartridge as a rimless version of the British round.

Casting your own will save you a lot of money though. My rule of thumb for any of my 7.7mm Arisakas is to "cast 'em big and cast 'em hard" as a soft alloy isn't accurate with the Metford rifling used in the barrels, at least in my guns.

As for forming brass from 3006, I finally broke down and bought Privi instead. After many years of collecting/shooting these guns it was the smartest move I've ever made and with cast loads they seem to last forever.

[leadman]

I just use 8X57 Mauser brass in my 3 Arisakas. Only 1 mm short and it causes no problems. One pass thru the full length sizing die and it is ready to load, no fireforming needed. Works so easy if you did not look at the headstamp you wouldn't even know it was not 7.7X58.

[Safeshot]

Resizing 30/06 brass is easy, only one pass through the full length 7.7 mm Japanese sizing die, use MINIMUM case lube on upper body, shoulder and neck area of case; normal amount of case lube near case head. Trim to length with a Lee case trimmer (cutter and stud type) in a drill press. Privi-Partisan Brass is good and available. Privi-Partisan .311 Dia. jacketed bullets, FMJBT and SPBT 150 gr. are available from Grafs & Son web page/site for $25.99 per 100. Cast Boolits are good also. For full power loads the SPBT 150 gr. work well for me. No reason not to shoot these rifles.

[texaswoodworker]

Converting 30-06 to 7.7 is pretty easy. Here's an artcle I wrote over detailing the process a few weeks back.

http://texaswoodworker.hubpages.com/...-to-77-Arisaka

Make sure to slug your bore on you Arisaka. They can very a lot. Some can be smaller than .308. Others like mine are in the .315-.317 range. I was getting horrible accuracy with jacketed bullets out of mine because it's oversized. Lead will fix that problem.

[Maineboy]

I just use 8X57 Mauser brass in my 3 Arisakas. Only 1 mm short and it causes no problems. One pass thru the full length sizing die and it is ready to load, no fireforming needed. Works so easy if you did not look at the headstamp you wouldn't even know it was not 7.7X58.

ditto! My method as well.

[funnyjim014]

I also have a 7.7 issue. I just sluged the bore on it and the widest point on the slug measures 3.14. Would the lyman 314299 work if I sized them to 314? Im not sure how oversized that cast boolit should be?

[Motor]

I also have a 7.7 issue. I just sluged the bore on it and the widest point on the slug measures 3.14. Would the lyman 314299 work if I sized them to 314? Im not sure how oversized that cast boolit should be?

What size is the bore? The bore size and condition are as important as the groove diameter. Chances are if your bore diameter is on the low side and the rifling is sharp the .314s will work.

If you can get .315 or .316 without sizing that is what I would do.

Motor

[funnyjim014]

Thats what I thought. Midways kind of limited on the way of 303 choices so I figgued it would work. The bore and rifling arnt too bad. Im just looking to get this old girl firing. I originally bought a lee 311 150gr for the arisaka and my 303 Enfield come to findout when I sluged the bore with the 311(unsized) it barely cought the rifling .looks like ill be placing another order with midway

[Motor]

I use the Lee 160gr TL 2R with a lead / linotype mix. They typically drop at .313 to .3135 usually more towards .3135" They are normally closer to 170gr than 160 also.

I shoot these unsized from a 91-30 with a .314+ groove diameter and they work just fine. The load is sub-sonic though which probably helps.

Motor

[runfiverun]

I'd go to NOE and get a 316299 the 314299 won't make .314 [unless you use linotype in an older mold]
and the .304 nose will be to small too.
you'll also want those gas checks...

[TCLouis]

I am a little late in the game with this advice, but . . .

Slug your barrel before you do anything.

The one I had would shoot .308" fully coated (well mostly) coated and .309" boolits just fine.

My forming procedure was simple and straight forward

Remove stem from FL sizing die
Lube case with a good sizing lube ( I have done several calibers with Lee's also)
Run case into sizing die

Rough trim to length (I use the Lyman drill press trimmer for this because I do not form anything in less than 105 cases per lot. If I am in the groove I can use it to cut to final length, otherwise the next step is included.)

Final trim with appropriate trimmer

Debur inside and outside of neck.

Lube the inside of the neck replace the stem in the sizing die and run in the sizer again.

Anneal

Load junk cast boolit in front of fast pistol powder

Fireform

[leadman]

TCLouis, that is alot of work to go thru as 8 X 57 Mauser brass works with just a pass thru the full length sizer then load. Course you have to have the 8 X 57 brass.

I am able to use the Hi-Tek Red Copper coating to build up the diameter of the 314299 or Lee 160gr AK/SKS boolits by using heavier or more coats. I shoot .315" diameter boolits in my Arisaks and Mosin Nagants.

The Type 99 bores were the first production chrome plated bores I read and all 3 of mine look pretty good but on the large size.