HELP! Need advice - stuck lead slug in Mauser barrel

[bedbugbilly]

I was talking with an acquaintance this week and telling him about my "project" of getting ready to reload for 8mm Mauser and shooting the WW I Gew98 that I have. He was telling that his dad (who is now deceased) used to cast bullets and reload for 8mm and he'd wished he had known as he gave all of his Dad's reloading stuff away. He asked me if I'd like another "project" and then explained that his Dad had gotten a cast lead slug "stuck" in one of his Mausers shortly before he passed away and had never gotten it out. He said the pieces to it were still at his Mother's house - if I wanted it he'd give it to me. (He has no interest in guns or shooting - he and his mother sold his Dad's guns a couple of years ago) We went over to his mother's and after digging around in the garage, he came up with the barrel and action which had been removed from the stock. He said the stock and other parts were in the basement somewhere and he'd hunt them up when he had more time.

So, I came home with a 8mm Mauser barrel and action - minus the bolt for now. I asked if he was sure the bullet in the barrel was lead and he said he was. Well, now, how do I get it out?

His Dad evidently tried hammering it out from the breech end to the muzzle - should have gone in reverse. There is what looks like a 5/16" solid brass cleaning rod but it evidently broke where it screws together and the end of it is just about at the end of the receiver. I took a dowel and slid in from the muzzle and it appears it is about half way down the barrel. I sprayed oil in the barrel in both directions and I was thinking I could gently tap it back towards the breech. This thing doesn't want to budge. I don't' know if the brass rod he used has swaged the base of the lead slug and is stuck in it or not. Any suggestions on how to get it out? I don't want to damage the barrel as it looks like it might be decent. If I can get this slug and cleaning rod out and he finds the rest of the parts - it will mean another Mauser to shoot.

I have left oil sitting in it to lube the bore thinking that might help - still won't budge when I tap from the muzzle. Hopefully someone can give me an idea of the best way to approach this? I don't want to do anything until I know what is the best way to get it driven back out the breech without harming the barrel. Thanks.

UPDATE

THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED! I let the barrel set for about 4 days with penetrating oil in it. I had a 1/4" steel rod that I taped with electrical tape to center in the bore - clamped the barrel in a padded vise and then got my "persuader" out. I was carefully but giving it good firm taps - THIS THING WAS STUCK GOOD!

So, looking the situation over, it was about 14 inches or so from the muzzle and had what looked like a 5/16" brass sectional cleaning rod firmly stuck to it from the breech end. No way could I get a grip on the brass rod - not enough to grab on to as the end was halfway down the receiver. So . . .

I picked up a 1/4" X 18" electricians twist bit at Lowes and a new 3" section of 1/4" steel rod. I set the barrel upright clamped in a padded vise. I taped the drill bit about every 3" with electrical tape so they would act as "bore guides" and center the bit in the bore. I put the drill bit in a "brace" (as used with wood auger bits) and I carefully inserted in the bore and would turn about three or four turns with very light pressure. I could feel the lead slug as I bored. Every three or four tuns, I removed the bit, took the barrel out of the vise and gently tapped with my hand muzzle down to clear any "lead chips". I had marked the bit with electrical tape at the muzzle so I could watch the progress. I figured if it was a typical 8mm lead slug, it would be about an inch long. After drilling and removing chip a number of times, I felt the bit touch the end of the brass rod that was stuck.

I stopped drilling, wrapped electrical tape around the 1/4" X 36" steel rod, took some emery paper and gently rounded the circumference of the tip to remove the sharp edge on the end of the rod. I re-clamped the barrel in the vise, got my persuader and proceeded to tap. It took a few hard taps but I finally broke things loose and the brass rod came out. I took a look down the bore and saw that the slug was now a lead "sleeve". Carefully, I took the steel rod and was able to gently tap that out. My hole was perfectly centered in what looked like about a 200 gr. lead slug (I'm guessing). I was even able to measure the sleeve and the bore mic'd out at .323.

I think what happened was that the fellow either had a "squibb" or was trying to slug the bore. The brass rod was definitely a "sectional cleaning rod" but it looked like he had put nothing on the end of it (jag, etc.). I think he pounded from the breech and the end of the rod, having a female thread for a cleaning jab, pretty much "swaged" its way into the base of the slug and just wedged it in tighter than a possum going down a rat hole.

The bore looks good - strong rifling and no evidence of damage. Now, if the fellow who gave it to me can only find the rest of the rifle that is supposed to be at his mother's house.

I was really hesitant to apply any heat to the barrel. It might work and not cause a problem but I just didn't want to "take a chance" if the ended up decent on the inside. Over the years, I have, on several occasions, had to bore out obstructions on original muzzleloading barrels. In those cases, there was usually fouling that had been there for years and had "ringed" that spot of the bore. Some were able to be salvaged and I could "fresh out" the rifling - others were lost causes and had to be either lined or bored and re-rifled. Usually they aren't a major problem but I will admit that this barrel takes the cake as far as my experiences go with having a stuck obstruction that wouldn't budge! These "center fire" rifles are new to me as I shot BP for 50 years and only started shooting cartridge guns a couple years ago.

I greatly appreciate all of your help and advice - it really helped on making a "plan of attack" for solving this problem. I'm just tickled to death I got it out and that the bore is good. Many thanks to you all!

[CHeatermk3]

What oil are you using--I'd recommend Kroil and plug the muzzle to keep the solvent component from evaporating. Then, after letting it sit overnight, put it into the freezer for a few hours, then try tapping on it some more--If it were mine I'd try getting a grip on the rod gramps stuck in the slug to see if it could be turned and removed. Would not want to pound on the slug and get that mess stuck more!

If you're gonna try this have everything ready so the barreled action is really cold.

Personally I would take it to a friend who has a barrel vise (assuming the first try did not work) and remove the barrel so I could work on getting that rod out.

[1johnlb]

I had one stuck in a 6.5 Mauser and ended up having to buy a solid 1/4inch steel rod. I stood the barreled action on end, muzzle up and receiver on a block of wood and it tapped right out. Would not even budge with anything else. I made sure and smoothed my rod and took off all the sharp edges before I started. Good luck.

[RickinTN]

Go to Home Depot, Lowes, etc. and get a 36" steel rod. A 5/16" may work but a 1/4" certainly will. Tape the rod so you don't damage the bore (I like electrical tape). Freeze the barreled action as mentioned above and tap it back toward the breech with the action setting on a wood block on the floor. No big taps, just solid medium ones. It will probably come out slow, but it should come out.
Rick

[MtGun44]

1/4" steel rod, put a .25 ACP case on the leading end and drive in on hard, it will jam and make a perfect
brass shoe for the front to protect the bore. Now put a few wraps of electrical tape along the rod and
then get a 5 lb drilling hammer (need a HARD and long duration hit) put the receiver on oak on a concrete
floor and give it a might whack to start it. Cut rod to shortest length that will guarantee getting the slug
out to the end, since it will want to buckle and shorter buckles dramatically less than longer.

Bill

[Bad Ass Wallace]

The solution is so simple; apply low heat until it melts out or loosens. The amount of heat needed is best over an LP propane flame which will not affect the barrel heat treatment or damage any bluing

[303Guy]

Yup. Melt it out. You can control the heat by placing lead on the barrel and heat no more than will melt the lead. Alternatively you can keep touching the heating barrel with a lead rod/wire which will eventually melt or just pull on the cleaning rod stub as you gently heat the barrel until it pulls free. If the barrels starts to glow red in the dark you've gone too far.

[1johnlb]

By the time you get the barrel hot enough to melt the lead you will have softened the steel and lost some of the temper in the steel. Even if it doesn't expand from the pressure at that spot it could very well kill accuracy from premature wear of the softer metal. I would use the rod. Just my .02 I only paid $6 for a steel rod and a peace of mind about it.

[gnoahhh]

Were WWI-vintage Mauser barrels heat treated? I'm inclined to doubt it. Still in all, heating it to the point where the lead melts out would at the very least promote something hinky happening to the straightness of the barrel, and I would also think that you would have to heat it uniformly right back to the breech (or muzzle) so the molten lead pours the whole way out without re-solidifying at some point along the way.

If it's as tight as indicated, I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up having someone drill it out.

[cpileri]

I can echo the advice above: stand it up in a vice, pour penetrating oil in the muzzle and let it sit overnight. let it soak around the bullet as much as possible. next day, or when ready, pour out the oil. place in freezer for an hour (if you have a big enough freezer. either way, then take a 1/4" rod, I use aluminum since its softer than the steel (though the oxidation coat is abrasive) taped up, but taped steel works too. and tap it out back towards the breech.
i found the overnight soak really does help.
C-

[Gtek]

I made one years ago with .250" steel rod from Hardware store. Placed in lathe and drilled center 3/16" bit to depth of shank on bit. Grind flat on shank forward end of bit shank, drill rod 90 degrees and tap 6-32 for short set screw at this point. May need filing to round set screw edges. I also used 1" pieces of shrink tubing every 6", multiple layers at each point to slip fit bore. Tougher than tape and oils do not set off into yucky goo! Very slowly drill at upward angle so chips fall free from plug. This hole relieves pressure from external wall and gas check/25 case, whatever on rod and push out. Heavy hammer somewhere between drop and hit and hold down on hit keeping from bounce. Once you get it moving should become easy with WWl erosion forward of chamber.

[303Guy]

Sights and sling rings were typically soldered onto barrels. The heat to melt lead will not affect the barrel in any way. Over heating on the other hand will. Hence my suggestion of testing the heat with a lead stick or lead wire (like solder wire). Do not use an oxyacetylene torch for heating! That can easily overheat spots on the barrel. Use a propane torch with a 'soft' flame and gently heat the part of the barrel with the stuck boolit by stroking the flame over a lager area and rotating the barrel for even heating. A steel rod might be quite fine but I would worry about a rod as hard as the barrel being pounded inside it. The rod would need to be a close fit so as not to damage the rifling. If that rod bends in the bore under impact it could press hard against the bore at its tip as well as along its length. A brass rod with a close fit is a much better idea. Also make sure both the rod and the bore are free from any kind of abrasive dirt before pounding on it and make sure the rod tip isn't expanding as you progress (pull it back after each blow with the hammer to make sure it is free). The drilling trick works too. Just be sure it is a cast boolit stuck in there. You wouldn't want to leave a jacket stuck in there. Not a problem if melting out the lead as the jacket will come out easier then.

[Multigunner]

The old time gunsmiths would drill away as much of the slug as possible then plug the chamber and pour in some mercury. Mercury dissolves lead.
They'd plug the muzzle as well and tilt the barrel every so often to let the mercury wash back and forth over the lead.

To remove blown through jacketed slugs of the old .30 of 1903 cartridge the Army used to issue a special tool that screwed onto a cleaning rod. The tool was hardened steel and a perfect negative image of the bore with sharp leading edges. Not likely to find something like that for a Mauser bore.

[Multigunner]

The main problem of heating a barrel is to do it evenly otherwise the barrel might warp and take a set when it cools.
Also Mauser sights are soft soldered on, so they are likely to come loose.

[CHeatermk3]

bbb-
let us know how it works out...

[Bad Ass Wallace]

By the time you get the barrel hot enough to melt the lead you will have softened the steel and lost some of the temper in the steel.

Melting point of lead 620 deg F, melting point of steel 2500 deg F, tempering / carburising steel 1500 deg F, max output of low pressure LP gas burner 900 deg F - how can this affect a steel barrel?

[dh2]

I love a good 98 Mauser take the barrel off and build some thing mice. Not that I have any thing against the 8mm Mauser, but do love to build on them

[303Guy]

Melting point of lead 620 deg F, melting point of steel 2500 deg F, tempering / carburising steel 1500 deg F, max output of low pressure LP gas burner 900 deg F - how can this affect a steel barrel?

I don't see how but there is concern that uneven heating could warp the barrel which would take a set. I cannot categorically say this won't or can't happen. It is warm enough to stress relieve the steel and that could conceivably result in barrel warping. Then again, rear sights were typically soldered onto barrels with no ill effect that I know of.

[JSnover]

It can be melted out without hurting the barrel. Silver solder temps are higher than lead melting temps. Lapping a barrel correctly involves pouring molten lead into the bore to form the lap.

[1johnlb]

Sights only require heating of the surface of the barrel it's a technique called sweeting. Silver solder is high in carbon and more like a welding rod requireing a acetylene torch to melt which is also by chance what is used to cut steel. My concern with heat to the barrel is by the time you get that lead slug thats on the inside of the barrel hot enough to melt, you have gone far more than 650 degs in temperature on the barrel because of heat dispersion. Everytime you heat steel to a excessive temp you change it's chemical state a little, wether it's tempered or soft. That in turn can and most probably will cause bad things to happen in that barrel, like soft and hard spots. causing uneven wear over repeated shooting, also changing barrel harmonics. I don't know about you gents but for me that's bad. In the time it took me to type this I would have had it out with my steel rod.