Homemade Lube, Geargnasher's SL68 recipe

[btroj]

Been on the forum for a long time I see... all 3 and a half years. Had you done some research in the archives, you would see what they are asking for. Most everyone here that have learned how had some help. I'm from the old school where one basically learned it himself the hard way or from some mentor. Some of us have been here since Shooters was on... that has been a while ago, some 15 years ago in fact. We won't spoon feed people that won't do some work to find out what is what. The information is here on this forum.... look for it!

A mentor does far more than say - your barking up the wrong tree, go try the next forest over.

Many of us HAVE done quite a bit of work and all we get is the same old runs round. Figure it out but you are all wrong but I wont tell you were.

[btroj]

If you're in the market for....well, you know what.

The wax was sold as "beeswax", the rest has all been an assumption based on that. Yes, the Navy used a lot of real beeswax. They also use other things. The stuff in question here still does not appear to be actual beeswax. A wax meeting those specifications and the appearance/description of the Navy wax was just tested this morning and failed by 85 degrees to meet the same anti-scorch properties of the Navy wax. So the search for the proper wax goes on, with nothing but smoke and mirrors all around.

Gear

Hey Gear, at what point do we proclaim that there exists a beeswax threshold? Seems we are being told about the same, doesn't it?

[Love Life]

......

[onceabull]

I think this time Love Life is mistaken..
Onceabull

[geargnasher]

This thread is quickly degenerating into exactly the kind of thing that is being smugly made fun of. The hypocrisy is quite amusing.

Gear

[Love Life]

This thread is quickly degenerating into exactly the kind of thing that is being smugly made fun of. The hypocrisy is quite amusing.

Gear

Ell oh ell.

[Grump]

If you're in the market for....well, you know what.

The wax was sold as "beeswax", the rest has all been an assumption based on that. Yes, the Navy used a lot of real beeswax. They also use other things. The stuff in question here still does not appear to be actual beeswax. A wax meeting those specifications and the appearance/description of the Navy wax was just tested this morning and failed by 85 degrees to meet the same anti-scorch properties of the Navy wax. So the search for the proper wax goes on, with nothing but smoke and mirrors all around.

Gear

Failed by 85 degrees F from the 515 that Navy wax takes, or by 85 degrees from the 460 at which Ivory's sodium stearate melts?

Details, it's all in the details.

BTW, I went over to beyond5.56 forum and I'm wondering if StarMetal owns it??? I would never let a moderator post the types of stuff he has in page 10 or so of their lubes thread. Nothing outrageous or nasty words, just dripping with attitude and like he wants some to DARE him to give full and useful information. Meh.

[MBTcustom]

I also have some of the mystery wax (or have access to it if I have a need). I pulled every string I could from some PHD's that I know who both know eachother, and both owed me favors (benefits of being good to people)
Anywho, I asked them if they could talk to the egg heads at the university and see what it would take to accidentally bump a sample of this wax into the mass spectrometer. I had all the pieces lined up on the board and ready for checkmate, but then I was told that the MS had been down for months. Seems it uses a very special light bulb to pass light through the burning vapors of the sample to determine what it's basic elements are, and the darn light bulb burned out!
I asked when it might be repaired and was there anything I could do to help the egg heads with the task of figuring out how to screw in a light bulb, but was told that this particular light bulb was exorbitantly expensive and that no one needed it badly enough to replace the bulb.
I wish one of you other fellers had some strings you could pull because despite my best efforts, I rolled snake eyes.

[btroj]

Do they have a wet lab Tim? Might not need mass spec to get an idea of what it is. Even an IR spectrum would give some clues. Beeswax is full of esters of various sorts, microwax has none of them. Esters would be very identifiable on an IR spectra.

Even a good melt point test will tell us a bunch. Different waxes have different melt points. An accurate thermometer and gentle heating will tell a bunch about wax too.

We are at a point where we can either work together to find a really good lube, made from obtainable ingredients, or we can bicker. I prefer not to bicker. I don't care what happens on other sites, it isn't helpful for our discussion here. If someone knows something they should either tell what they know or bow out.

Gear, Run, and I have spent a fair amount of money and tons of time trying different things. Much of what was discussed wasn't ever posted online. Anyone who thinks this is simply a ploy for attention has it all wrong. This is a serious attempt to find a lube that works well in a wide variety of conditions. Having people tell us it is a fools errand or her wise blasting the work done is extremely insulting and not at all helpful. I have no use for those who chose to belittle others while providing absolutely no useful insight.

Dos Joes lube work well? I don't inow, never used any. I here it is good stuff. Anyone who can truly help figure out how to make it is welcome to add their advice/wisdom. If you aren't interested in making productive, helpful comments then keep them to yourself. We need honest help, not grandstanding.

[Geppetto]

If someone were to send me a small portion of this mystery wax, i MIGHT be able to pull some strings and get an FTIR performed on the material.

Otherwise, I could also have the sample run as a job through work and get it done for about $150.00.

[MBTcustom]

If someone were to send me a small portion of this mystery wax, i MIGHT be able to pull some strings and get an FTIR performed on the material.

Otherwise, I could also have the sample run as a job through work and get it done for about $150.00.

We need to talk.

[btroj]

What is needed first is a good GC separation of the wax in question follo Ed by spectroscopy. Spectroscopy of a mixture tells us the nature of the whole but not what the parts are or in what proportions. GC would separate out the various companents first allowing us to have an idea of what the components are and in what proportions.

[geargnasher]

I have an email in to Ben at Blendedwaxes regarding cost estimates of analysis and possible short run duplications.

Gear

[btroj]

I will contribute to the cost of an analysis.

[bruce381]

""This Navy wax melts at 147F just like ordinary beeswax does, but unlike ordinary beeswax it will withstand 515F without discoloring. It might have taken more heat and been fine but was starting to smoke pretty badly at 515F so that's where I quit."'

Got it, then it maybe a pet wax Penreco made lot of then years ago, unfortunaly with modern dewaxing "waxes" that were maybe no more with various GP I base oil plants closing (thats where oil base oil is dewaxed) and where Pet waxes come from, whatever it was maybe no more.

Some are micro crystaline some has varing degress of oil etc with varing melt points and color.

Can even have Antioxidant added for color and odore control.

[bruce381]

I have a few pails of the Pet Amber the names as I remenber from penreco were are the colors.
http://www.penreco.com/petrolatum-usp

http://www.calumetwaxes.com/images/s...Spec_Sheet.pdf

[bruce381]

Better spec page

https://www.hollandchemicals.com/Doc...2009922231.pdf

gear see notes on this page 20 ppm BHT is a Anti oxidant tho not much may exstend the "non burning " or color darking temp range you have noted so maybe all you need is a suibtle pet wax a some BHT ( i have plenty email if you want some)

[bruce381]

Gear note high viscoity at 100C very interesting

http://www.hollandchemicals.com/stat...path=3248,3793

[bruce381]

can run vis of suspect wax need about 10 ml/grams

[runfiverun]

just for reference, water is right at 0 centipoise at room temp.
a thickened guar gel that will reliably cross link needs a min temp of 60-f or so and a centipoise that is 11 centipoise.
it looks like water as the base [at 11 cP], but will cross link into a thinner gel reliably.
12 will give a full cross link.
the secondary [buffered] cross link which occurs at a higher temperature will also be stronger, however the initial crosslink will have broken back down into a thinner water like substance at a lower temperature.

anyway all that there is just to point towards some thoughts I have had about lube recently.
I am seriously wondering about affecting the wax through another method which would bump it [protect it] as the heat/pressure hits it allowing it to re-work again.
kinda like getting it through the relax point by making a secondary lube work point, only in reverse for the heat to work when making it.