More Cadet Talk

[Bigslug]

I got lucky with my old rear sight; there's a bunch of silver solder on the underside of the sight, and a big silver solder rectangle on the top of the barrel, but the two didn't seem to be actually connected - I just undid the mounting screws and it came right off.



Any pointers for getting rid of that stuff? I'm thinking propane torch & a gentle wipe of steel wool?

[Hooker53]

Bigslug. I thought about that but I did it the slower safer way. A sharp exacto blade used as a spoke shave. After you get as much off as you can than start bluing and I between bluings, steel wool it. The next bluing will show you where to concentrat the steel wool. By the time you get all the solder off, the bluing color will be blended to your old blue. Then polish it and your whole barrel with an 8" cloth wheel at 1725. Turns out right good and took about an hour.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

As gentle heat as it takes to melt the solder won't damage anything. But the Xacto blade is liable to scratch the softer steel of the barrel. I would use brass or copper hammered close to a cutting edge in order to work-harden it, and then sharpened. Or hard plastic. It might turn out that it has already been scraped (unnecessarily really) to give a better grip for the solder. In this case you could polish it with successive grades of abrasive paper, double-sided taped to a strip of wood.

I expect you can still buy bronze wool from Brownells, but steel should be fine, especially if it is finer than the ordinary pot-scraping variety. A lot of steel wool is oiled, so for finishing before bluing, it would be a good idea to dunk it in alcohol for a while. I would use Birchwood Casey Plum Brown, which gives a very durable finish, and when boiled in clean water after many applications, takes on a slightly warm black which blends in nicely with an old gun.

[Hooker53]

Yes. B in S is correct. If you are not use to the feel of close cabinet scraping and using deburing tooling during tool and die work, you can do it a few other ways. One is going to Radio shack or any electronic store and get some solder braid wick. We use it alot in Ham radio. Heat up at least a 300 watt soldering gun. Hold the braid against the solder and it will wick is up like bread to soup. After the solder is off, fig what level of Finnish you have under your old bluing and use that grit to prepair that area. After that it's all in bluing and burnishing till you get it blended li,e the sample done in the above photo. There are other ways to do it. It that would be one way. My way is what I'm use to the easiest. I can feel the diff between solder and steel. Let us know how it turned out.

Roy
Hooker53

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If that braid is hard to find locally, the braided copper outer layer from coaxial TV aerial cable is pretty good. It can take forever to remove any thickness of solder with steel wool.

[Bigslug]

I tried the copper wire scraper approach, as that's the very tool I use as a carbon remover for AR bolts and such. No joy on that really - slow going and not very thorough. Propane + steel wool + 320 grit sandpaper did the trick. The Brownell's Oxpho Blue and a heat gun. . .well. . .it'll do for now.


With indoor lighting, it's not quite so bad. At least the silver rectangle is gone.

[Hooker53]

Tht will work big slug. The main thing is ya got that sight it of the way. I'm planning on trying mine out today. IV had to curb my shooting for the last little bit because my Father-N-Law next door passed away over the weekend , so been working thru that. Let us know how you like that new sight setup.

Roy
Hooker53

[Hooker53]

Man. I tried mine out yesterday and WoW. I sure like that #8 rear tang. I need to talk myself into going on and I stall that 17-A type globe on the front. Iv just got to talk myself into moving that close fitting stock sight out of the dovetail. It helped my grouping enough to know I will now, have to go back and work harder on the loads for this Cadet. I think it's gonna be somewhere between 4.2 and 4.8 Gns of Unique. It's no end to what you can try is it? Ha. Keep shooting Gents.

[skeettx]

Hooker53
Sorry for your loss
Happy for your310 success
The removal of the front sight blade is no big deal, DO IT.
And if you do not like the 17-A put it back on
Thank for your report
Mike

[Hooker53]

I know Mike. It's just a matter of grabbing a brass drift and brass hammer. Ha. Ha. I think on something like this it's a wait and see with what I presently have on there first. Thanks for your condolences Mike. He was a good man but better off now!!!! Happy Easter to all my Cadet Brothers. Go out and shoot one tomorrow!!!! Ha.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

I think I've got the installation of the #8 rear mostly arranged. The current logistics of the matter will probably set it back at least a month to completion.

EDIT ON THIS BIT IN NEXT POST! Current thinking: the existing front sight is about a half-inch up from the bottom of the dovetail, and the gun shoots a couple inches high at 25Y. Lee Shaver makes a series of sights that take 17A inserts and have internal spirit levels http://www.buffaloarms.com/lee_shave...s_pr-4088.aspx

I'm probably going to get one of those (thinking the .625" tall one) and see how well the peep/globe combo works while leaving the existing mid-barrel rear sight in place. While the open sights suck for precision at distance, I found yesterday that they were rather fun for short range "shotgun" snap shots at empty dog food cans. Good to have options, so long as the options work. . .

[Hooker53]

I have a Globe front like a 17-A Lyman but is an older steel model I'm thinking about milling it to the radius of the barrel on the bottom and mill a slot the width of the present Cadet sight in the middle and then drill and tap a set screw in the side of it. Just a thought. Ha. Slug, sou ds like you been having some fun with your Cadet. They are just nice little rifles. Wish I had a Doz of them. Ha.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

I became re-acquainted with one of the Cardinal Rules of Home Gunsmithing today: Never assume the previous owners knew what they were doing.

The rear sight has two screws holding it to the barrel; they have the same thread pitch, but they are NOT the same head. The screw that SHOULD go in the front hole has a conical coutersink head, and the one for the rear is a square cheese head. Reverse the two, and the elevator screw runs into the cheese head, preventing the elevator bar from sitting flat when the elevation screw is run all the way down to the 50 yard (meter?) setting. This had the secondary effect of boogering the elevation threads in that location slightly preventing the adjusting nut from travelling past the optimistic 450 yard mark to the even more optimistic 600. A little thread chasing with a fine screwdriver head, and all is right with that corner of the world.

Since I decided to at least try leaving the rear barrel sight on when the rear peep gets installed, I torched the silver solder off that as well - BIG DIFFERENCE! The sight was sitting on a wad of the junk that kept it from sitting fully flush on the barrel. I think the P.O. got the screws mixed up, created the gap because of it, and decided to fill it in with solder. FACEPALM - - but now dealt with. Going to shoot it again on Monday to see where the elevation now sits, and re-evaluate the height needed for the replacement front globe.

I won an auction on a Parker Hale 7A sight this morning, so I will have the option of the folding-tang elegance of Calaloo's friction-dial BSA#8, and the micrometer clicks of the more "serious" smallbore sight. On the one hand, the BSA#8 (in theory) will allow both rear sights to be in play at the same time, set for different yardages, and not require removal of anything. On the other hand, removing the slide of the 7A will allow open sight plinking without having to grip around a folded-down tang sight. Should be identical hole spacing on both, so indecisive fiddling around should be possible.

Blew up another row of milk jugs with the middle-of-the-road alloy - air-cooled wheelweight - at the same 5 grain charge. Got slight deformation on that one and a couple less jugs than the water-dropped one (7 vs. 9). This modified cartridge should be pretty impressive once I get all the Starline cases fireformed and actually start load development. I suppose we could call it the ".310 Cadet Magnum", but I'm leaning more towards ".32-20 Kinda-Sorta", or possibly ".32-20 Actual" since this new round really IS a .32, instead of a .312.

[Bigslug]

OH. . .



. . .YEAAAAAAAAH!!!!
Detailed range report for distance to follow in about a week. Should have a preliminary 25 yard zero at the indoor pistol range tomorrow. Hee!

[Hooker53]

Hello Big. Now we are talking some serious stuff here. Looking like you are gearing up for some great fun. I have not drifted my front sight out yet and slipped a 17-A in it's place but intent to do that soon. Still having fun with the .38 Cal Roller. Keep us I formed on how it does.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

Little new to report other than it's zeroed for 100yards and grouping about 2-2.5MOA with the fire forming load of 5 grains Unique. Trajectory is about 2" high at 50, and two feet low at 200. The REALLY good news is that the rootbeer barrel shaped LBT bullet is clearly stable and predictable out to at least 250 at whatever the current velocity is. I was going to go out with my dad yesterday to do some chrono work on that and some of his toys, but rain and waiting for UPS (that's another thread) kept us hanging out at his place on the workbench for the day.

Going to either dig up or order a new set of 17A inserts. I'd like a little thinner post for field work, and may do load development with a ring insert on bullseyes. At any rate, the current setup is a big improvement. Glad I could do it with a British sight - at least on the main one.

Primary mission now is to finish blowing out the cases and get to work on a final load.

[Hooker53]

Hey Big. How ate you handling your case mouth resizing on these after you fire form? On mine, if I do t do a little sizing after the fact, the Boolit won't seat and after I size a short portion of the neck, I have an area that's a straight case again. UR loads up well. I am using a 32-20 sizing die. Maybe I should try a. 310 die???? Good Info as always.

[Bigslug]

Flaring and seating, and letting the .32-20 sizing die collect dust until the day I bring home a gun with a legit .32-20 chamber (I.O.W. it may be sitting forever). The bullets are .320", the mouth of the fired brass about .318-.319", and a stock die set to squish it all back to about .310" - in short, useless for this application.

[Hooker53]

Good evening Big. Tell me. Have you ever knocked the front sight out of yours? I decided to bite the Boolit and do that tonight. Laid it on its side and with a brass drift and Med size brass hammer, whacked that thing as hard as I would ever want to. NO JOY. Not even a movement. Thinking about just running a .625 ball endmill down the base of a globe site then milling a pocket in it and just pinning it to the existing site!! IV seen this done but it's been a long time ago.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

I had the gunsmith who drilled and tapped for the PH7 rear sight do the swap on the front. They needed to apply the "heat wrench" to it to melt the braze prior to knocking it out. They were considerate enough to call me and ask if I wanted the ends of the Lyman dovetail block milled off to stay within the width of the Cadet's skinny barrel. End result is very functional with a little bit of color difference on the bluing - not a big concern for me as this gun's got extra holes galore.

Current accuracy/chronograph testing update with an ACWW version of the LBT slug in fire-formed cases:

Accuracy with some free Herco I came into absolutely SUCKED, and that one's been discontinued for this project.

Accurate 5744 has been a GREAT powder in my Dad's .45-70's, but gave us A LOT of incomplete combustion in the Cadet and some incomplete combustion in .30-30's. He had some hopes for it, hence these test loads for Binky, but it looks like he gets to keep it all for the straight-wall big bores.

Accurate #9 shows a lot of promise.

All I had left of the first batch of the fire-forming 5.0 grain charge of Unique for this round of testing was the 20-1 slugs (I blew off the rest of the WW ones farting around - sue me), but was able to learn that this gun much prefers the harder WW bullets.

The load ranges we played with got us up into the 1200fps range and nothing - brass, primer, or gun - is showing any signs of excessive pressures yet, and intial erratic chrono printouts seem to indicate that we started WAY below what the gun wants (at least for those powders), and were getting into the happy zone when we ran out of test loads. We're going to continue the workup with #9 and Unique for sure - others may follow. We should have a pretty good baseline for what this particular revision of the .310/.32-20 is capable of by the time all is said and done.