22 hornet, 25-20, 256, 32-20

[bigted]

contemplating a small game round in a single shot say encore base ... maybe a barrel stub settup ... that can be made to shoot very accurately. i like the small capacity cases and small caliber of the stated shells. i want to fool round with some very quiet cast loads, some very heavy for caliber loads both jacketed and cast, and i want to mess with a silenced settup at the same time.

so of these cases ... i would like to pick the brain of any who has an opinion on which would meet my needs and why. loads for your choice. rifle style and why. distance you shoot them at and your accuracy.

the accuracy desire is going to trump all else but i believe i can have all i desire in one sweet package.

[bigted]

an added thought is that i would very much like to keep this thread on the topic of those cartridges mentioned. they are my choices to choose from and they are the cartridges i would like the opinions on.

thankyou all very much

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Sweet Home, ehh? I live over in Brownsville. I'm a bit at a loss as to what you are trying to do here. What do you mean by
"barrel stub" set up? A very short barrel? A threaded barrel for a silencer? Have you maybe considered a single shot T/C rifle and
some custom barrels?

[Bullshop]

You are familiar with the whisper cartridges right? 300 whisper (AKA 300 BO) and 500 whisper. Both designed and intended to shoot heavy for caliber sub sonic and silenced rounds for military use, silent sentry removal. Both designed to be capable of penetrating light armor.

[shooterbob]

All three are great rounds with my preference being the 256 and 22 hornet. The hornet is mch quieter than the 256 and components are much easier to acquire. The 256 win is obsolete and you have to form brass from 357. Easy enough to do but form dies are pricey. 25-20 brass is more expensive than hornet as well as the 32-20. A barrel stub setup for the contender or encore is great for being able to have a threaded barrel but really not necessary since barrels can be changed out anyway. The stub setup looks intriguing though but I don't really see a practical use.

[country gent]

I would seriously lean towards the 256 as the brass is stronger than the others. 32-20 is inteeresting and molds would be more available that 25 calibers. The barrel stub set up is a good way to go and should work well. 120 grn bulltet in the 256 should be just sub sonic and work good.

[williamwaco]

I vote for .22 Hornet or .25-20

Depending on your range requirements.

I would call the .25-20 a good 100 yard solution and the .22 hornet good for 150 yd.

If you are going to eat what you shoot, go with the .25-20.

[35remington]

Given we are talking about CAST bullets, the 256 must get a "not recommended." The short neck is a severe handicap with all but very short bullets. With the common 85-90 grain bullets some amount of the bullet base will be below the neck in a typically throated rifle. The extra capacity is not needed for velocities that actually do well with lead bullets. In other words, it will drive a cast bullet faster than it will shoot well. The other three have more appropriate case capacities for cast bullets. If it was jacketed only, I'd say have at it. Since you didn't specify that........no 256.

That leaves the other three as better choices. Cases are much more available. I've not had much trouble getting cases for all of them.....before the recent panic, that is. Then every case in every caliber becomes hard to get.

The 25-20 and 32-20 have advantages over the .22 Hornet at subsonic velocities, as a subsonic solid 22 bullet doesn't kill particularly well. I find the 25-20 does quite well at subsonic speeds on small game and up to feral cat/raccoon size critters as long as the bullet has any reasonable meplat and prefer it over my K Hornet for subsonic cast (my K Hornet still has reasonable neck length). The 32-20 does as well if not better. At high cast velocities both kill quite well on critters they are suited for, and there is considerable overlap in application between the two at higher speeds reasonable for cast bullets despite something less than a 0.06" difference in bullet diameter.

If a slight edge in subsonic killing power is wanted go 32-20. If a miserly approach to bullet metal expenditure is wanted with a bullet that has reasonable streamlining and killing power at low speed go 25-20. If you're going to punch holes in paper way more than shoot game at low velocities, get the Hornet. A heavy for caliber 22 bullet is kinda an oxymoron, as the heaviest 22 bullets don't even equal the weight of a standard 25-20 bullet, much less a 32-20 bullet.

There are a great plenty of 25 caliber moulds available so that is not an issue. I've accumulated over 8 different designs over a relatively short period and I wasn't even trying very hard. NOE just made a run of suitable 25-20 moulds and a number of designs are offered by Lyman, RCBS, NEI, Accurate, and NOE.

Keep in mind a twist sufficient for a very long slow bullet might be faster than you want for best cast bullet accuracy at higher speeds.

[M-Tecs]

Sweet Home, ehh? I live over in Brownsville. I'm a bit at a loss as to what you are trying to do here. What do you mean by
"barrel stub" set up? A very short barrel? A threaded barrel for a silencer? Have you maybe considered a single shot T/C rifle and
some custom barrels?

Barrel stubs
http://www.eagleviewarms.com/?page_id=191
http://www.eagleviewarms.com/wp-cont...els-Manual.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCzZgt67dyg

You can purchase them premade or cut off and thread used barrels.

http://www.huntingnut.com/index.php?...ewtopic&t=4579
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...stubbed-rifles
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...tender-barrels

[40-82]

I only have experience with the 25-20 and the 32-20 in rifles. Both make excellent close range subsonic small game cartridges for close range. Most of what I know about loading them comes from 35 Remington's threads on the subject, which are well worth looking up. With full power cast bullets in a pinch, the temptation is to try more with those little cartridges than you really ought to. People have killed deer with both, but I think squirrels are more suited to those cartridges realistic capabilities. With the 22 Hornet, I only have experience with the cartridge with jacketed bullets at full velocity in an old Model 70 Winchester. Because of the expense of jacketed bullets I don't shoot it much. I only carry it sometimes in turkey season. For some reason I've kept track of the number of turkeys I've killed with it, and as of last year, I'm up to 23. The hornet is a good killer on turkey sized game with minimal meat loss, but even with jacketed bullets I find it touchy to load for. I feel like if I pick a random powder charge and bullet out of a loading manual I'm much more likely to come up with a usable load with either the 25-20 or the 32-20 than the hornet. I have zero experience with the .256.

[Wayne Smith]

For what you are talking about I would agree either the 25-20 or the 32-20, depending on what you want to shoot. Both are on the same lightweight rimmed case, so the advantages and disadvantages of those apply equally. Brass is readily available for the 32-20, I don't know when Starline last ran 25-20. 25-20 is the 32-20 necked down.

Since you are talking about a custom you get to choose your barrel twist. Pay attention to this, the boolits you can shoot accurately will be determined by this factor more than any other.

[1Shirt]

Hornet is good, and my choice for what you have listed. That said, I would opt for k'ing the hornet, as it reduces brass flow, is a little more potent, and is a better looking ctg IMO.
1Shirt!

[M-Tecs]

In cartridges like the 22 hornet, 25-20, 256, 32-20 I prefer the non G2 Contender over the Encore for the trigger and the size and weight of the receiver. Of the four I am newest to the 22 Hornet. Only been shooting it about a year 1 1/2. Due to brass life issues not loving it as much as I thought. I will be switching my three Hornets to K-Hornets this winter. None of the three chambers are the same.

One option to the 256 is 30-357. Just run a 357 Mag case in 300 Blackout dies. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...k-357-wildcat/
http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...hades-of-gray/

The 256 brass is hard to find and forming dies are expensive and PITA to use.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Thanks for the educational links, M-Tecs. I'd never encountered this terminology before, but the concept of interchangeable barrels is an old one going back to barrels that insert into receivers with interrupted threads. Also slip fit barrel shanks with cross pins a la Chinese SKS rifles, cheap .22s, etc. Thanks again. DG

[reed1911]

The .256 brass is still available, we sell it. Making it is very easy and forming dies are not necessary. Grab a cheap Lee 7.62x25 die and the FL die for the .256. Anneal the .357 Mag at the mouth, run it in to the 7.62x25 FL die to form the neck to .30 and then in the FL die for the .256 and away you go. Case loss is 1% or less. New brass runs 80.00 per 100 properly formed and properly headstamped. I have a lot of success using cast bullets in mine. I can run the 115g FP at full throttle and still have room in the case. Accuracy is excellent.

[atr]

I've been shooting both the 22 Hornet and the 25-20 and between the two I find the 25-20 MUCH easier to reload. To my mind the Hornet is very fussy to reload for compared to the 25-20.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

You might consider the .32-20 with a .308 bore instead of the usual .311/.312. Barrel selection should be greater for twist consideration, with good bullet selection. No special dies, just a reduced expander. ?

[John Boy]

25-20 ... http://www.chuckhawks.com/25-20Win.htm

[bigted]

AWSOME !!! thanks for all the helpfull suggestions.

the 25-20 was my choice as well for one good reasson ... i have a 10 twist 25-06 barrel already and to my mind at least ... having it cut and stubbed back in would be a spiffy way to akomplish what im looking for. re-chamber to the 25-20 should be an easy task and the flutes in the barrel should make an itegral silencer pretty easy to build [if and when]. i do like the small capacity 25-20 as it is a large enough caliber to get the long heavy boolits and still have a small capacity case to not waste room and allow a full case with a 100% load fairly easy.

sentry removal is a grand idea ... however Bullshop ... had other things in mind ... from my/our days in the great state of Alaska. target shooting will be the most common use of this rifle but in my experience ... a good target rifle would make an awsome hunter if the weight is held down.

keep em comin fella's ... more load info would be great and keep the opinions coming as well. THANKS ...

[bigted]

oh ... guess i did not remark on the barrel stubbing reason;

the current barrels for my encore are welded to the hinge piece. now i know that this is done under a proprietary method at TC but i do know enough about metalurgy that the pull of the weld on the molecules is unavoidable and the different stress's developed can not be guaranteed to act the same all the time. funny how the electric surge with flutter from place to place while the weld is being applyed. sooo;

when the current welded barrel/hinge block are used ... the now stub [after being cut off at the end of the chamber or block] is bored and threaded to except the threaded barrel that has been turned down and threaded for this purpose. hense threaded into place instead of welded takes all the stress of the weld out of the picture and the accuracy is better anticipated rather then not knowing how the heat of shooting will act on your welded barrel assembly.

so for my little experiment with a small 25-20 chamber ... AND ... the cost of a custom barrel anyway ... as well as the fast twist i desire ... i would prefer to spend my money on a known good method for reaching my goal rather then spend a bunch on a custom barrel anyway and depend on the gods smiling down on me [which dont seem to happen too often] with a good weld developement in the molecules.

WHEWWW ...