(MiHec) What next for 10mm / 40sw?

[Oreo]

I'd like to do a no lube groove version.

[Blanco]

Do you have a design in mind Oreo?
Throw down...
I haven't been here long but I do get the feeling of resentment from a few folks aimed at the whole alternative coatings crowd. It's ok cause i'm a come lately.
But I have noticed a few will steer wide when the conversation moves to the new coatings. I think that they have invested so much in the lubing boolits with wax or grease that they don't or wont look at anything new.
I tried it on my first castings. My first thought was ... What a mess. Finding the PC tumble process is nothing short of a quantum leap, BUT that's my opinion.
Getting a boolit MADE for it... First steps on Proxima Centauri in my opinion

[Blanco]

I would like to do a no groove .45 ACP design for my newest addition

Attachment 111478

[sirAIG]

Oreo, I like where blanco is taking this. But what about a round nose, semi wad cutter style boolit. I shoot a ton of IDPA, something that cuts paper good would be great!

[Blanco]

sirAIG
HAve a look at the print for that 9mm that I was referencing.
Notice that the base is actually has a squared off shoulder before transitioning to the nose.
This actually translated out in the mould and you can see the shoulder on the boolits.
I know it's not a wadcutter, but I would be curious how well it would cut cardboard ?

[Blanco]

Here is the cardboard

[AZBrian]

I'll put my vote in for a no lube groove mold. I PC everything these days. I'd go for either a 6 cavity with no HP or a 4 cavity HP mold, but I'd like the 4 cavity HP mold more.

[jayjay1]

If I could find a method to PC faster than I can lubesize, I would do PC.

But PC is to cost intensive, needs to much time and space.
As long as I can make roundabout 1500 bullets an hour with a Star sizer, I´m nono PCing.

If you do a no - lube -grove - design, I´m out.

[wacki]

I need subsonic molds.

6 cav round nose powder coat
4-6 cav hollow point

Something like the Winchester Ranger SXT 180 Grain.

I shoot suppressed and don't want lightweight supers or lightweight squib loads.

[Blanco]

Couple more designs off the hip
Not real sure on how to quackulate the boolit weight, but just from comparing to other designs, I would guess 170~180 Gr.

Attachment 111529Attachment 111530

[sirAIG]

Blanco, that is pretty much what I was seeing in my head. Maybe even a little bit of a larger "shelf" from the RN to the boolit diameter. What is everyone else thinking?

[Oreo]

If you want cookie-cutter holes in paper I think you're going to need more of a "shelf" then that. I suggest looking at the common SWC profiles available, picking a favorite, and removing the lube groove.

[Blanco]

Blanco boolit 3 would have about .011 shoulder. Honestly for cutting cardboard I wouldn't think you would need more ? I'm not a mould maker but I would think this design could be made from conventional tooling? No wait for a specialty ground cherry and faster turnaround?????
Blanco boolit 2 is an even simpler design and could almost be made with a rock and chisel ???
I really need input from someone who is a bit more experienced on this. What works what creates difficulties.
I can forsee the shoulder on #3 causing issues with dropout from the mould The square shoulder may have feed issues in some guns. #2 would almost cut the sprue itself and jump out.
Just personal gut feeling here... #2 design would be easier to produce and have fewer issues.
I like simple. You could shorten the meplat and fill out the nose a bit more, and I would be willing to bet that would cut paper nearly as well as a wadcutter. The simple nose radius means easy feeding in most guns and fast mould dropout. It would also look really slick when PC'ed. At this point I am leaning to #2 for simplicity.
... I would really like to see this GB move a bit more quickly than what I have seen in the past. I don't know that I could wait a year once a design is settled on.
I say keep it simple, Make Oreo's job easy and Miha's even easier. Get 20~30 commitments and Get er' done!

[Oreo]

Slow down there Blanco. Patience is a virtue here. First, MiHec's timeline is solely his own so it's not even worth worrying about. Plan on a year from the group buy conception. If that doesn't work for you there are other options. Mountain molds and a few others will cut you personally your own design in a few weeks and do a pretty damn good job from what I hear. Or, there is quite a wealth of off-the-shelf designs available from Lee, RCBS, Lyman, and others. So for me its not about just whipping up another boolit design for MiHec. Its about finding something that's not already being made and using the best expertise Cast Boolits Forums has to offer to refine the idea into a true original design that will shoot and function brilliantly. That takes time.

As for a .011" shoulder, I suggest you go get your calipers and see how big that really is. Then go to MidwayUSA's website and look at the available SWC boolits in 40cal and approximate how big the shoulder is on those. It's a lot more then .011". It's probably a lot closer to .075" in order to have any effect on paper.

At this early stage I suggest we not even speak of measurements. Lets just talk about design aspects in abstract terms till we have at least a handful of people wanting the same general direction. Then we can start hammering out a blueprint.

[Blanco]

Hammer Down

[Oreo]

PM sent.

[Paulinski]

Heavy fo sho

[Arrow]

I think a 220 grainer of the same design with a gas check and lube grooves would be great. Also have the short and deep pins available. This could be the ultimate push hard heavy hitting 10mm bullet. Can push it to full potential without having to ever worry about skidding or leading of any sort. How does anyone else feel about this?

[Oreo]

I like your thinking Arrow and it mirrors my own thoughts. What about the gas check though? I have heard of people pushing the 200gr version into nuclear territory WITHOUT a gas check. Would there be any real benefit to having a gas check? If someone can articulate to me how it helps I'm all for it but I need to be convinced.

Also, if we do a 220gr with lube groove, and even with or without gas check, we also ought to be able to make one or two of the lighter weight versions available without lube grooves to satisfy the powder coaters. I think it could all be done with the same cherry but I'm not a machinist. So...

A call to the powder coaters: If you had to pick one or two weights as priority, which would you like to see done without lube grooves? 200, 190, 170, or 150? (blueprints from my previous group buys)

And one last thought... Miha cuts molds on the very outer edge of the spec. so a .403" spec gives a .4034", or sometimes a .4039" boolit and I think that's excessive. I've been getting complaints from my last group buy. I think the spec needs to be reduced to .402" for lube groove molds and .400" or .401" for powder coat molds. Keep in mind that Miha will cut them +.0005 or so. Any objections?

[Arrow]

The way I see it not many people would be using a 220 grain bullet in a 10mm for plinking. It's kind of a waste of lead. There are much lighter bullets out there that will still punch a hole in paper accurately. So for this bulket with a gas check makes since because it will be used (by me anyway) as a woods/mountain bullet and for hunting. I have talked to ctious about his load development. With the 200 and he was saying he had to switch powders and even slow down some loads because he was getting leading with certain alloys. I am new to casting an still having trouble with leading in a bunch of different pistols so I'm kind of bias towards gas checks on this one. But with a gas check you could cast 220 wfn hard cast for bear and then also cast a shallow or deep hollow point with a softer alloy and still push it as hard as you want without having to adjust speed due to alloy hardness. I just think this would be the ultimate 10mm killing bullet!!