Sights for Mosin-Nagants

[Pepe Ray]

Mornin' Jr.
I guess I jumped to an "assumption" that you had a ramp on it already. Didn't you shorten the bbl?
The Williams ramps are the WTG ,usually. Gives you some windage latitude also.
Altho I don't own one, a couple of shooting pals have them and have installed the Peep on the cocking piece. It's true that there is wobble but only when "you" wobble it. Leave it alone and it re seats itself just fine.
Some day we've gotta chat about your SRC sling.
Pepe Ray

[Ben]

I like the idea of using a Uncle Mike's machine screw sling swivel stud! If the cocking piece were drilled and tapped for the threaded Swivel screw stud, you'd have elevation correction with this system ( some - not a lot ) by varying the depth of entrance of the stud down into the hole that you D/T'd in your cocking piece. The front sight sliding R - L in the Williams Shorty Ramp will provide windage.

For a " One Load " rifle, that is all you'd need. If I were making constant sight changes, this system wouldn't work very well....but for a " One Load " rifle. Yep, it would work fine.

I once read of a fellow who owned a 93 Spanish Mauser in 7 X 57 mm. The rifle had a nice bore , he shortened the barrel to about 22 ", put on a front sight ramp and small bead. Next he bent into a 90 degree angle & fabricated a hvy. gauge piece of metal for a rear peep sight, then drilled out an aperture hole. One large screw held
his homemade rec. sight " in place on the center of the rear receiver ring. Most gunsmiths would " Cringe " at the thoughts of something like this.....however, with a little trial and error work with sight alignment , it shot wonderfully. He also used only one load, so once the rifle was zeroed , no other changes were ever made to the sights. He killed MANY heads of game with that rifle.

Ben

[Junior1942]

Mornin' Jr.
I guess I jumped to an "assumption" that you had a ramp on it already. Didn't you shorten the bbl?
The Williams ramps are the WTG ,usually. Gives you some windage latitude also.
Altho I don't own one, a couple of shooting pals have them and have installed the Peep on the cocking piece. It's true that there is wobble but only when "you" wobble it. Leave it alone and it re seats itself just fine.
Some day we've gotta chat about your SRC sling.
Pepe Ray

Nope, I didn't shorten the barrel. All I did was knock off the sleeve holding the front sight and bayonet on the barrel. It gave me a stepped barrel with a ~.675" OD end about 2" long.

Here's a picture of the rifle as it looks at this minute. You can see the stepped barrel if you look closely.

[Three44s]

Quote from Reboundspring:

"........................................ The only downside, if any is the fact that the cocking piece moves from side
to side a bit in the rear receiver slot. Your windage may vary. ....................

.......................... "

I find my cocking pieces also move up and down during trigger take up.

An appeture mounted on the cocking piece would certainly be a simpler solution.

I like the MOJO sight ..... but I am greedy ........ I want all the sight radius ...... "the law will allow".

So I searced on ...................

Enter many spare parts for battle rifles ........ one rear sight that I have always admired is the rotary drum for the HK91. I bought two of them complete.

And here is my current thinking:

I am considering mounting a homemade mount not unlike the side mount scope bases of yesteryear that places the HK rotary drum sight over the top of the bolt ........ change the bolt to bent configuration. Change front sight height ....... my preference would be to adapt to a globe front sight.

Just a glimpse into my crazy existence.

Regards

Three 44s

[Junior1942]

I removed the red dot shown in the photo above, and I temporaily installed an old 3x pistol scope in order to check the accuracy potential of the 220 gr Hornady RN .308" @ 1960 fps with surplus 4895. At 50 yards, it put two shots in 3/4" and then the scope came loose. I got a winner in my Rain Rifle, I believe. I'll start soon on the peep sight project.

I'd simply tap the cocking piece 10-32 and use just the sling stud with windage adjustment via sliding the front sight, but I'd have to drill the pilot hole exactly perpendicular to the cocking piece. If not, when zeroed, the front sight might hang way off the edge of the ramp dovetail. But that would sure simplify the job!

[Pepe Ray]

Hi JR>
One more thot?
After securing the beast upright, I'd check the difference in position of the CP,
between cocked and fired. It would seem to me that if there is any, the drilling position should be in the cocked position. That's the one you'll be using.
I imagine you already saw that but wanted to be sure before you D/T'd.
Pepe Ray

[Junior1942]

Pepe Ray, et. al., I've decided to just go with the swivel stud on the cocking piece. If I drill and tap the 10-32 hole out of kilter, I'll just drill and tap another one. There's plenty of room on the cocking piece for extra holes. Watch this spot for photos! I think I'll start tomorrow morning.

[Mk42gunner]

Junior,

Since you have already decided on using a cocking piece sight made from a swivel stud; here are a few ideas for you.

1. To help insure that the cocking piece returns to the same spot every time; is there enough room to mill a female vee into the sear and a matching vee on the cocking piece? I saw this used on Mauser's in (I think),Roy Dunlap's book "Gunsmithing." I would look on my M44 but it is still full of grease under the wood.

2. I am thinking of using a B-Square Scout mount for a Remington 700; it is 6 3/4" long and is supposed to use the front mount holes and the rear sight holes. I think it could be made to work with a little bit of filing on th front end of the mount to match the rear sight base. Of course the receiver ring would have to be drilled and tapped for the base.

Food for thoght,

Robert

[Junior1942]

Robert, the cocking piece returns to the same spot or very close to it every time. I can push it to either side and get movement, yes, but the movement is always the same each time it's cocked. That's using eyeball measurement, however. But a little movement won't matter on a short range rifle. About .005" movement is only about 1" at 100 yards. All I care about is putting all rounds in a paper plate at 75 yards.

[nicholst55]

Gents,
As a MN butcher, and gunplumber of long standing, it seems possible to
make a cocking piece sight mount for the MN.
The only downside, if any is the fact that the cocking piece moves from side
to side a bit in the rear receiver slot. Your windage may vary.
Do we care?
The sight and base add weight to the cocking piece, and further slow the
speed of the striker, which is already pretty sedate on the MN.
Again, do we care?
In my previous life I was an aerospace tool maker and mechanical engineer
(depending on what work was available). Now as a successful gunsmith, I live
in back of a 7-11, in a busted Airstream Solo, because of the huge profits in
custom gun work.

Because I am sick of Remington 700 Tactical rifles, I have turned my attention
to developing (redeveloping ?) the MN.

The areas that need work as I see it are:
Better metallic sights,
Shorter lock time, and or shorter striker fall
bolt handle location
Lighter ignition components (cocking piece, firing pin)
Better trigger, a la` Timney. I'm working on this one, seriously.

Positive aspects of the rifle that make it worthwhile:
Some are really excellent shooters, despite their shortcomings,
Strong receiver, with long thread engagement for the barrrel.
Ease of rebarreling
Massive locking lugs
Floating bolt head.
Good extractor
Powerful cartridge, that shows good inherent accuracy

Just plain weird aspects of the MN
Ejector/ magazine interruptor
Bolt locks horizontally.
Stock that accentuates recoil

Am i nuts? I think the potential of the rifle has yet to be developed,
in the way the Mausers have been.

I have two re-arsenaled m44s apart as we speak. I plan to true the actions
to close tolerance, install new match barrels and lighten the lock system.
Anybody interested in how it's done?
I've already built an action wrench, receiver mandrel and truing collar, and
bolt head machining fixture.
I plan to re barrrel with Remington 700 PSS take-off barrels.

I believe that 1/2 MOA is possible with the MN platform.

Reboundspring

PS if you want to look at what I do for a living go to http://TacticalOperations.com
I built ALL the rifles there and all production.
R

I think there is definitely a market for improvements to the Mosin. What I'm not sure about is how much people are going to be willing to pay for these improvements. One big reason the Mosin is so popular is due to its relatively low price; what other factory/arsenal refurbed rifle can you buy for $150 retail?

The concept of being able to rebarrel a Mosin with a good quality .308" barrel is very attractive, though. I know of at least one gunsmith that has done this already.

I see an improved trigger and improved sights as the two biggest potential markets. Even with 'tuning,' a Mosin trigger leaves a lot to be desired.

[NuJudge]

Re cocking piece peep sight: Pepe Ray's suggestion of using an Uncle Mike's machine screw sling stud is a good one! No windage adjustment, but no problem with a one load rifle. The peep hole/aperture is a perfect size, too.

I once saw a Mannlicher-Schoenaur where a simple L shaped piece of steel was screwed to the bolt shroud, resting between the split rear receiver ring. A hole was drilled in the vertical portion of the L, giving the aperture. I would immaging egging of the hole would give slight windage adjustment.

I believe the same would work on a Moisin-Nagant, perhaps the holes being drilled in the safety projection.

[Junior1942]

Take a gander, boys. The cocking piece was easy to drill and tap 10-32. Here we see a $1 rear peep adjustable for elevation -- 1/2 turn = .015" movement; 1 turn = .030" movement. The final position/elevation will be a tad shorter/lower than shown here. I'll also chuck the swivel stud in my drill press and round off that flat area on the bottom with a file. I was able to align the aperture to my eye with my cheek on the stock in a quick-fire position. The old military sights were too low, and I had to scrunch my head down to align them. Now, I throw the rifle to my shoulder and eye and aperture and front test-sight are right on. A front 9/16" Streamlined ramp and a .343"N Fire Sight are on their way from Brownells. Final position of the sights will be ~ 1 1/8" above the bore centerline.

[LET-CA]

[QUOTE=Junior1942;284531]Take a gander, boys. The cocking piece was easy to drill and tap 10-32. Here we see a $1 rear peep adjustable for elevation -- 1/2 turn = .015" movement; 1 turn = .030" movement. The final position/elevation will be a tad shorter/lower than shown here. I'll also chuck the swivel stud in my drill press and round off that flat area on the bottom. I was able to align the aperture with my eye with my cheek on the stock in a quick-fire position. The old military sights were too low, and I had to scrunch my head down to align them. Now, I throw the rifle to my shoulder and eye and aperture and front test-sight are right on. A front 9/16" Streamlined ramp and a .343"N Fire Sight are on their way from Brownells. Final position of the sights will be ~ 1 1/8" above the bore centerline.

Wonderfully elegant solution!

[Junior1942]

Here's an eyeball view of the same setup as above.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I love it, wonderful solution. Can't wait to hear a range report. I'm heading off to my mosin parts bin to see if I have extra cocking pieces.

Regards,

Dave

[Maineboy]

Junior, I'm just wondering...Can you tap the swivel hole to take a lyman screw in aperture?

[Junior1942]

Junior, I'm just wondering...Can you tap the swivel hole to take a lyman screw in aperture?

I don't see why not. I'd buy the proper tap and drill and do it, but this ~.150" aperture is perfect for me in the deer thickets. I won't be doing much target shooting so I don't need a smaller aperture.

[LET-CA]

Here's an eyeball view of the same setup as above.

You could put a "locking nut" on the shaft of the screw to allow you to tighten it in place once you've got the correct elevation. Might make it a bit more stable and less likely to rotate under recoil.

[Junior1942]

PS: If a fellow wanted a smaller aperture, just buy another $1 swivel stud and drill a smaller hole from the side. By the way, I'll soon be selling these 7/8" & 1/4" studs on my web site. I've got them in stock, but I haven't put them on the web page yet--too busy working on the rifle. If anybody wants one just send $2 to cover the stud cost and postage.

[Junior1942]

You could put a "locking nut" on the shaft of the screw to allow you to tighten it in place once you've got the correct elevation. Might make it a bit more stable and less likely to rotate under recoil.

I thought about that in case Loctite doesn't hold. If the stud is a tad loose I'll booger the threads so as to make it a tight fit.