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Thread: Sights for Mosin-Nagants

  1. #1
    Boolit Master at Heavens Range

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    Sights for Mosin-Nagants

    I put a cheap Simmons red dot on the butchered M44 I call my "Rain Rifle." Now, I have discovered that the thing is almost useless in low light conditions. As a matter of fact, I performed a side-by-side low light comparison of most all of my scout scopes and pistol scopes. Just before dark, I turned off my living room lights and aimed through the front door glass and the screen door behind it and out across my front yard to my mailbox, some 75 yards away.

    My new Leupold 2.5x28 IER won hands down. I could almost read the letters on the side of the mailbox. With an old 2x20 and an old 3x20 I could tell I was aiming at a mailbox, and that's about all. With the red dot, I couldn't even tell it was a mailbox.

    Compared to the others, the Leupold 2.5x28 was like someone had turned on a big light outside, it was that much better at gathering light.

    Buying another Leupold 2.5x28 seems the logical choice for my M44 rain rifle. But I'd rather put a modified Firesight on the front and a peep on the rear, mounted on the cocking piece if possible. If I were hunting in a downpour--which I did once this year with the rain rifle--I'd have to cover the ocular lens of a scope, and quickly release the cover if I saw a deer. With a peep sight, I'd just aim and shoot. If ol' Mossy Horns was standing there looking at me, the less I had to think about the better.

    I could also just use the Leupold and forget a lens cover. It's 100% waterproof, the brochure says. Opinions, please.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Can't go wrong with a Leupold low power. Many have fantastic results with red dots and such, but I keep it as simple and reliable as possible. I've gone through a many year phase with the 3x9 vaiables etc, but now find I prefer the fixed 4x's for almost everything. If I could find fixed 3x's, I'd probably go with them. I would not like to add a battery to my sighting systems even though they are, by reputation, the cat's meow.

  3. #3
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    I've got 3 scout scopes, Leupold 2X and Burris 1.5 and 3X. I've used them on numerous rifles for quite a few years now and really like them. They are not the "all in one scope" that was claimed for them but they certainly are a functional hunting scope. Especially for those of us that are visually challenged in later years. However for a close in, lousy weather rifle such as your "rain rifle" the rear aperture and Firesight fron may be a really good combo also. Marble's makes fiber optic front sights from .312 to .570" in height so I'm sure one of the right height could be fitted to the front sight base. The top of the cocking piece could be easily D&T'd for a Williams WGRS Guide reciever sight. That would pretty much fix your rifle up the way you want it.

    Larry Gibson

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    ya need a spotlight mounted on that gun!
    Sometimes you have to ignore the "good idea fairy"

    Please stop telling me "That can't be done" while I'm doing it, it's just plain annoying.

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  5. #5
    Boolit Master at Heavens Range

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    The top of the cocking piece could be easily D&T'd for a Williams WGRS Guide reciever sight. That would pretty much fix your rifle up the way you want it.

    Larry Gibson
    The WGRS rear would be perfect but for two problems: (1) getting one to fit the radius of the cocking piece, and (2) the rearward slope of the cocking piece. Ideas?

  6. #6
    Boolit Master LET-CA's Avatar
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    Take a look at this.

    http://www.mojosights.com/mosin_nagant.html

    I have no experience with it, but ran across it the other day while surfing the web.

    All the best.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Junior1942 View Post
    The WGRS rear would be perfect but for two problems: (1) getting one to fit the radius of the cocking piece, and (2) the rearward slope of the cocking piece. Ideas?
    Several different WGRS bases are made with some for rounded recievers. Should be able to find one close and either file to fit or fill in with any of the "steel filler" material compounds. I'd mount it more up on top of the cocking piece where it is level. One can always use a flat bottomed sight and just file the area on the cocking piece flat. It's not like the "rain rifle" is a collectors piece. I'd just modify it to make it work to my specifications.

    Larry Gibson

  8. #8
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Several different WGRS bases are made with some for rounded recievers. Should be able to find one close and either file to fit or fill in with any of the "steel filler" material compounds. I'd mount it more up on top of the cocking piece where it is level. One can always use a flat bottomed sight and just file the area on the cocking piece flat. It's not like the "rain rifle" is a collectors piece. I'd just modify it to make it work to my specifications.

    Larry Gibson
    Hummmmm. . . .

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    Is that a good "Hmmmmm" or a bad one, or have I got you thinking?

    Larry Gibson

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    You got me thinking out of the box. When I first butchered the M44 I thought about making a rear sight out of an 8x40x1" screw. I'd use the slot in the screw head as a sight. But I decided, correctly, I believe, that it would be hard to see in low light deep woods. Then I thought about using the post from an SX Sight Systems sight. I even talked to Buckshot about drilling & tapping the cocking piece 7/32"x64 for the post. I could use the post as a ghost ring or screw in an aperture.

    I'm back to thinking the SX post might be the best idea. But it needs another 1/2" of threads, I think. Thinking, thinking, thinkin. . . .

  11. #11
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    That might work out ok, the WGRS would give more latitude of adjustment though. Might not be needed with a close in rifle using one load though.

    Larry Gibson

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    JR'
    You've been around for awhile, certainly long enough to have a junk box of old "gunny" parts. Like a fore end sling eye with a thru (machine screw) bolt. Keep in mind that whatever you choose is going to get a lot of stress every time you "drop the hammer".
    If you like the idea (think about it) I'll wager I can find one in My junk.
    Pepe Ray
    The way is ONLY through HIM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master at Heavens Range

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    Pepe, I'm a thinkin', I'm a thinkin'. . . . Larry, it'll be a one load, 75 yard max deal. Right now, it's the 220 gr Hornady .308" RN @ 1960 fps.

  14. #14
    Boolit Man
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    Mosin sights

    Junior, First of all, I enjoy reading your stuff on your website....write more! I put a scout scope set up on my m44 and it works great. Nothing is perfect. I had a firesight/peep sight combination cost me a big deer a couple years back. It was early morning, overcast, and shooting thru the timber. It was light enough to see the deer, but not light enough to see the firesight against the deer. This is one of those 1% situations and I have not given up completely on firesights, but the scope would have worked better in that situation. The MoJo may also be a potential solution, sort of a hybrid peep sight. I'll throw in one more piece of info for you to chew on. The front sight post on the mosin's is pressed in. I discovered this trying to get a taller post in my 91/30. If you tap the sight out of the dove tail and clamp it into a vice, you can put a punch thru the top of the sight protector and knock it out. I know that there are firesights on a threaded post (I think for the sks) that you might be able to adapt. Shouldn't be a big problem for a dedicated tinkerer like yourself! Good luck

    Siamese4570

  15. #15
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    Might be more $$$ than you want to pay, but a good machinist should be able to make one of these , it could be threaded for a Lyman aperture , by the way- - - wouldn't it be nice if you could order it right now for $4.00 ?

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...m91peeppic.jpg

  16. #16
    Boolit Master at Heavens Range

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben View Post
    Might be more $$$ than you want to pay, but a good machinist should be able to make one of these , it could be threaded for a Lyman aperture , by the way- - - wouldn't it be nice if you could order it right now for $4.00 ?

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...m91peeppic.jpg
    Ben, Google gave one article with that sight: http://www.angelfire.com/realm/cruff...ges/moisin.htm

    It mounts via a collar and was made by Pacific Gun Sight Company circa 1929. Reckon they'd take a check? Ha! Seriously, they'd sell today if someone still made them. However, not for $4.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master at Heavens Range

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    Quote Originally Posted by siamese4570 View Post
    Junior, First of all, I enjoy reading your stuff on your website....write more! I put a scout scope set up on my m44 and it works great. Nothing is perfect. I had a firesight/peep sight combination cost me a big deer a couple years back. It was early morning, overcast, and shooting thru the timber. It was light enough to see the deer, but not light enough to see the firesight against the deer. This is one of those 1% situations and I have not given up completely on firesights, but the scope would have worked better in that situation. The MoJo may also be a potential solution, sort of a hybrid peep sight. I'll throw in one more piece of info for you to chew on. The front sight post on the mosin's is pressed in. I discovered this trying to get a taller post in my 91/30. If you tap the sight out of the dove tail and clamp it into a vice, you can put a punch thru the top of the sight protector and knock it out. I know that there are firesights on a threaded post (I think for the sks) that you might be able to adapt. Shouldn't be a big problem for a dedicated tinkerer like yourself! Good luck

    Siamese4570
    Just realized I didn't answer your post. All this "Rain Rifle" stuff will eventually be an article. I know about the removeable posts. A kind member of this very forum sent me a Mosin-Nagant front sight with an elevation-adjustable post held by a screw.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Junior1942

    Looks to me like a rec. sight like this with as many Russian rifle as there are out there would sell. If that sight could be built in 1929 , it could be built again today. Question is....will anyone tackle it ?

    Ben

  19. #19
    Boolit Mold
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    Cocking piece sight for MN

    Gents,
    As a MN butcher, and gunplumber of long standing, it seems possible to
    make a cocking piece sight mount for the MN.
    The only downside, if any is the fact that the cocking piece moves from side
    to side a bit in the rear receiver slot. Your windage may vary.
    Do we care?
    The sight and base add weight to the cocking piece, and further slow the
    speed of the striker, which is already pretty sedate on the MN.
    Again, do we care?
    In my previous life I was an aerospace tool maker and mechanical engineer
    (depending on what work was available). Now as a successful gunsmith, I live
    in back of a 7-11, in a busted Airstream Solo, because of the huge profits in
    custom gun work.

    Because I am sick of Remington 700 Tactical rifles, I have turned my attention
    to developing (redeveloping ?) the MN.

    The areas that need work as I see it are:
    Better metallic sights,
    Shorter lock time, and or shorter striker fall
    bolt handle location
    Lighter ignition components (cocking piece, firing pin)
    Better trigger, a la` Timney. I'm working on this one, seriously.

    Positive aspects of the rifle that make it worthwhile:
    Some are really excellent shooters, despite their shortcomings,
    Strong receiver, with long thread engagement for the barrrel.
    Ease of rebarreling
    Massive locking lugs
    Floating bolt head.
    Good extractor
    Powerful cartridge, that shows good inherent accuracy

    Just plain weird aspects of the MN
    Ejector/ magazine interruptor
    Bolt locks horizontally.
    Stock that accentuates recoil

    Am i nuts? I think the potential of the rifle has yet to be developed,
    in the way the Mausers have been.

    I have two re-arsenaled m44s apart as we speak. I plan to true the actions
    to close tolerance, install new match barrels and lighten the lock system.
    Anybody interested in how it's done?
    I've already built an action wrench, receiver mandrel and truing collar, and
    bolt head machining fixture.
    I plan to re barrrel with Remington 700 PSS take-off barrels.

    I believe that 1/2 MOA is possible with the MN platform.

    Reboundspring

    PS if you want to look at what I do for a living go to http://TacticalOperations.com
    I built ALL the rifles there and all production.
    R

  20. #20
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    Rebound, I can speak for a bunch of guys on this forum when I say, We're glad you're here!

    Here's my thoughts on the MN: the best thing about it, other than its price and its quality, is the ease of takedown. When my Rain Rifle got a good soaking, it took only--what?--two minutes maybe, and it was totally dismantled and drying.

    The worst thing about it is the awful safety. I made a juryrigged triggerblock safety out of a short section of airhose jammed behind the trigger. With the airhose safety in place, I can squeeze the trigger with all of my might, and the rifle won't fire.

    Re cocking piece peep sight: Pepe Ray's suggestion of using an Uncle Mike's machine screw sling stud is a good one! No windage adjustment, but no problem with a one load rifle. The peep hole/aperture is a perfect size, too.

    For a front sight, I'm looking at sweating on a Williams Shorty ramp, and putting a Marbles all-steel fiber optic in the 3/8" slot.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check