Starting over; .308 Winchester

[DeanWinchester]

.2? I don't know what range that is but that's very very good.
Better than I'm looking for actually.

Maybe be I'm asking for too much. Wouldn't be the first time I've had delusions of grandeur.
An inch at 50 yards just isn't a lot to ask for in my opinion. ....and I've got just what I'm asking for!......with a dam jacketed bullet. *spit*

[nekshot]

I had 2 times a rifle would not shoot decent and both times in frustration I went to Trail Boss and I had a winner! I have never had tb work in the higher side of speed but 1200 to 1500fps tb can make you feel good when all else fails!

[Silverboolit]

Don't give up on this project. Remember, it isn't a job, it's an adventure!! Actually, you are doing well on this. I know it is disappointing, but finding the right things that work make it all worth it.

Did you look at Accurate Arms website for descriptions of powder? IIRC, they have a 'Camp Perry' powder described as for the .308. Don't remember what the number is, though. You may want to call them for a suggestion. Never hurts to go to the mfg. and get some info, they should know.

[DeanWinchester]

Everyone keeps saying don't give up. And I haven't yet but there's no adventure to it. After five years of wrestling with .308 and four different rifles, I'm almost there. I've put in the time, money and effort got dick in return.
Ive been through so many molds I can't even remember them all.
Mihec 170g, Lee 155g & 160g (for 7.62x39), Lee 170g flat point, 311299, 311291, 311413(and a hollow point version), Accurate 165g, and my latest 150g LBT. There's been others I just cannot remember. I've shot them in a plethora of combinations through a Savage 10PC, savage Axis, Ruger M77mkII, a Brazilian Mauser rebarreled, and my Weatherby.

Wow, after typing this and a looking back, it's a bit depressing. Others can make a .308 sing like a sewing machine with lead, I for whatever reason cannot.

If what I've put in so far isn't enough effort, then the end result isn't worth the effort. Not when other calibers and guns yield results so much easier.

I've contacted the guy over at accurate and they are very good about replies. I've tried their suggestions.

[Silverboolit]

Dean.. I apologize, I didn't realize that you have been working with that kind of history. It sounded like you had just the Weatherby.

What is the common denominator in all of these endevors?

[aap2]

Hey Dean: My .308 boltgun would not shoot accurately until I tried 19 grains of SR4759 (or equivilent charge of 2400 or similar powders) until I tried the RCBS 165 grain Sil boolit or the great Saeco #315 tapered boolit......If you want to try these boolits in your rifle, shoot me a PM and I will send you a bunch (no charge of course) to try in your rifle....My .308 Rem 700 Tactical 5R woult NOT shoot well with all of the boolits that you have tried......

[TXGunNut]

I have a few 30-06's with 1:10 twist barrels. They all shoot j-words so I don't talk aboout them much here. I have other rifles that are more CB-friendly so quite honestly I haven't bothered casting for them. If I keep reading Ben's threads I'll probably give it a try someday. There are worse things than shooting j-words, I even shot a box of factory-loaded j-words yesterday...because I couldn't find any brass.
As discussed above I think the answer may lie in getting a seating die that gets the case mouth just right. Hang in there, unlike a woman you can put this rifle in the safe awhile until you figure out what to try next.

[runfiverun]

I'm coming in this midway through what's going on so I'm a bit lost.
dean you need to know a few things.
measure your throat area.
from the neck/shoulder junction of the case to about 1/2" forward.
this is the area of your rifle you need to be concerned about.
trimming your cases may be hurting your efforts here, that's how you find out.
hold the boolit to the centerline of the barrel, that's how you find out that measurement too.
accelerate the boolit gently at first then accelerate it the length of the barrel.
I'm using 4831-sc to do this in my 308.
I worked the load up until the powder started burning clean indicating I was getting near 50-k in pressure.
oddly this was also when my accuracy tuning really started.

[Grizzly Adams]

Dean, I know you are tired of hearing it, but don't give up. You may be getting frustrated, but the rest of us are getting a good education 😉. You are doing everything right, you just haven't found the right thing that will make the difference yet. I don't mean to question your ability, I'm just curious have you had someone else shoot your rifle with your casts. Sometimes we try so hard to make something work we put undue stress on ourselves, I know this sounds all touchy feely, but if you have someone who you trust their shooting ability, let them have a go at it, if they get the same results you are no further behind, just a thought.

[facetious]

I got a mould from LBT in the early 90's. FNLC 170. that was made from a pound cast for my Ruger .308. I started with IMR 4227 and data from the lyman book. working up from a starting load groups went from so so to bad as I went up. just to see I tryed dropping the starting load and things got better.

After reading on this site for a while I see alot of times guys are using loads that are less then starting loads found in the load books.

As a side note when I got the mould I told him that I had been using 165 Rem. CL's and when I got some cast up and made my first dummy the die was still set for the CL's and the fit was so close I could have left it the way it was.

[cbrick]

I read through this thread and a couple of things I didn't see mentioned, read back through it to see if I missed it.

What does the bore slug? What is the as cast diameter? What are you sizing to?

What are you using to size the boolits? An in & out sizer can and does size boolits off center and non-concentric. This isn't a matter of leading, it's a matter of balance in flight that's made worse by longer ranges and/or higher velocity. A push through sizer will size more concentrically, your choices are the LEE or the Star.

Harder is not better simply because it's harder, that's an old wives tale. Lyman #2 should be from plenty hard to too hard for what your doing. I shoot my 308 to 2,000 fps with air cooled WW +2% Sn (12 BHN), accurate & no leading. I recommend dropping the water quenching or even going to a softer alloy such as COWW with 2% Sn. I've done a lot of group testing using oven heat treated alloy going up in BHN using the same load and it's common for groups to open up as the boolit gets harder. Harder is better and hardcast just t'ain't necessarily so and has been the source of frustration for many a boolit caster over the years.

My go-to load in my single shot 308 is a 180 gr boolit sized .002" over measured groove diameter with a Star lubrisizer, air cooled COWW +2% Sn, 19.0 Gr SR 4759 and a standard LR primer. Seated to just kiss the rifling.

Rick

[DeanWinchester]

The bore is around .3095-.310
I'm sizing to .311. My method for sizing is a Lee push through sizer first because it's fast and easy. I don't lube till I'm ready to load. I lube with an RCBS LaMII and have been using LBT Blue Soft.

The boolits fall from the mold about .0005 over. Just enough to get a minimal clean up of the driving bands.


Ain't no 4759 around here. I do have a few pounds of 2400. Maybe I'll try that next.

[Silverboolit]

I like the idea of trying the 2400. 16-22 grains should work. Have you been using AA2015 in all of the rounds that you have loaded? Have you tried to shoot as cast with no sizing? Just take a few boolits and use some mule snot on them.

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=DeanWinchester;2874339]

I'm sizing to .311.

QUOTE

In any "normal" .30-caliber rifle, I'm sizing ALL bullets to .311" until 'something' arises to cause me to change.

On the long M1A/.308 thread, I fired over six thousand experimental rounds with every bullet sized at .311, and the results were excellent.

I don't even bother slugging .30-caliber barrels these days (yeah, yeah, it's rank heresy, I know.....but it works for me.)

[DeanWinchester]

I don't even bother slugging .30-caliber barrels these days (yeah, yeah, it's rank heresy, I know.....but it works for me.)

No, that's not heresy at all. If you know your throat diameter, there's little to no reason to know what the bore is. Maybe if there's a tight or loose spot it'd be nice to know but if you're not seeing leading go with the throat diameter every time.

[runfiverun]

if 17 grs of 2400 won't shoot reasonably well in a 308 you got problems with the rifle.
I can mis-match just about whatever boolit I want to a 308 and that load will shoot reasonable [under 2"] 100 yd groups.

[DeanWinchester]

if 17 grs of 2400 won't shoot reasonably well in a 308 you got problems with the rifle.
I can mis-match just about whatever boolit I want to a 308 and that load will shoot reasonable [under 2"] 100 yd groups.

Im gonna try it. BUT, what problems could it have that affects cast but still shoots jacketed so well?

[cbrick]

You might try softer boolits as I suggested. Simply no need to shoot diamonds and it can be detrimental to accuracy. Yes I know that condom bullets are harder than your quenched boolits but there is no way to compare shooting copper jackets and any lead alloy. What the copper jacket does has nothing to do with what lead does.

Rick

[tomme boy]

It measures 0.309"-0.310"x????

[DeanWinchester]

It measures 0.309"-0.310"x????

Yeah, the slug I pushed through measures around .3095 or so depending on how you hold the mic. It ain't easy measuring it. The throat measures .310, so saith my pound cast.
.311 should be perfect.