Starting over; .308 Winchester

[jmort]

The collet FCD works well. Once again I would recommend the 165 grain Ranch Dog. You can get a few from Carolina cast to try out.
165 grain RNFL gc
30-30 and most 30 caliber rifles .309" .310" .311"

This bullet was designed specially for 30-30 lever action rifles. It features the large flat point and larger than most RNFL bullets for more efficent energy transfer. It also works well in most other 30 caliber rifles. We offer sizing to three different diamters to better fit the different bore sizes found in 30 caliber rifles.

$17.50 / 100
$77.00 / 500

Shipping in USPS small ($5.15) or medium ($10.85) flat rate boxes

http://www.carolinacastbullets.com/Ranch_Dog_Outdoors.html

[DeanWinchester]

The frustration shows in your comments.

Sorry it isn't working out for you,

Ben

Its gonna show even more some day when I post pictures of me beating it against the Bradford Pear tree in my front yard.

[Silverboolit]

Dean... What boreriders have you used? Just curious.

[Silverboolit]

Dean: Would you try some 175gr that I have had good luck with? I would mail you some with data if you want.

Shot these this week, not weighed, just from mold. Powder was dropped from the RCBS measure. Nothing special about the loading, just plinkers. 50 yds, 15 shots.

[Piedmont]

DeanWinchester, What are you looking for as far as velocity and accuracy with the cast loads? What is their purpose?

[tomme boy]

Trust me, it can and will distort the bullet. Your seating die can straighten out the flair just fine. I use the RCBD neck expander. You can get a couple of sizes to adjust the neck tension. It flairs the round also.

Another thing is to make sure your brass is the exact same length.

You might just have to slow down the time you are shooting also. Especially if it is a pencil thin factory barrel. I had a 223 Remington one time that I only could shoot 3 rounds in a row. They would be 3 in a 0.4" group and the 4th would go 1/2" out. EVERY time. I took this rifle out 5 times in a row and used the same target and it kept the first 3 shots every time in a 0.6" group. If I let it sit for over an hour I could shoot it again.

Then sometimes it is just easier to give up and go find a new rifle.

[DeanWinchester]

Tomme, I'd have to get me another seating die. This one will not close the bell. The Lee die I have has no provision for a crimp or anything that would iron out the flare.

I trim the brass envy single time I reload it.

I don't think it's barrel heat but I could be wrong. The barrel is 3/4" at the muzzle so it's fairly heavy.

To to give up and go find a new rifle would make the fifth time. I ain't doing that. I'll make this work or I'll give up casting for .308 This rifle shoots jacketed far too well to let it go.

[tomme boy]

The Lee die should be able to get rid of the flair. Back out your seater plug about 2 turns from where you have it now. Do the same with the lock ring but about 4 turns. Seat a round with the die backed off and not locked down. Leave the ram all the way up with the round still in the die. Screw the die down till yo feel a little resistance. Lower the ram and check to see if the bell if starting to disappear. If it is not, put the round back in the press and raise it up and screw the die down a 1/4 turn and check again. I always leave just a very very slight flair. But not turning in of the brass.

[tomme boy]

The barrel may have a lot of internal stress. A little bit of heat can release this stress and make it walk around. Most factory rifle barrels are not stress relieved. You could pull the barrel and have it cryo treated or let it sit for the next 60 years and let mother nature do it for you.

[RickinTN]

Tomme Boy may be on to something here. I do nothing to remove the taper left by my M-die. Fortunately, or un-fortunatley my chamber neck area's are generous enough to allow chambering this way. I do only flair the necks in the .004" range, not really enough to see, but enough to clear the bullet and prevent shaving of the bullet. I usually have to measure the mouth of the case to see that there is any flair, and also hand start a bullet with gas-check to see that it goes in somewhere in the range of half of the gas check or a little more.
Rick

[DeanWinchester]

The barrel may have a lot of internal stress. A little bit of heat can release this stress and make it walk around. Most factory rifle barrels are not stress relieved. You could pull the barrel and have it cryo treated or let it sit for the next 60 years and let mother nature do it for you.

That makes sense but it's strange that it grouped so well with Hornady factory ammo and was very hot after doing so, yet I kept the barrel cool to the touch between each shot with cast.

[country gent]

This may sound simple but shoot a .22 rimfire over the bench a few times to see how that does. Light recoiling rifles and rounds can be tricky to get the same recoil and "return" on the front rest and bags than a full power load is. If recoil effect isnt the same or close to it it does show in your groups. With BPCR rifles down pressure is an issue due to 2 piece stocks and such. Benchresters are known to use talk on the bags to get a easy free slide of the rifle. Return to battery rests normally use a linear bearing with low friction to get the same "free" movement. M1As need the sling tension in place to show what they are capable of under match conditions. Testing these I normally did so with a sandbagged prone position. Sand bags under buttstock and back of foreward hand same sling tension and same prone position I used in a match. It may take finding "how" this rifle wants to be shot

[DeanWinchester]

This may sound simple but shoot a .22 rimfire over the bench a few times to see how that does. Light recoiling rifles and rounds can be tricky to get the same recoil and "return" on the front rest and bags than a full power load is. If recoil effect isnt the same or close to it it does show in your groups. With BPCR rifles down pressure is an issue due to 2 piece stocks and such. Benchresters are known to use talk on the bags to get a easy free slide of the rifle. Return to battery rests normally use a linear bearing with low friction to get the same "free" movement. M1As need the sling tension in place to show what they are capable of under match conditions. Testing these I normally did so with a sandbagged prone position. Sand bags under buttstock and back of foreward hand same sling tension and same prone position I used in a match. It may take finding "how" this rifle wants to be shot

Same rifle, same rest, same hold, same distance, I had excellent results with the factory ammo. It's not the rest.

[Silverboolit]

Have you tried some factory 150 gr loads? Might be interesting to see if the results are different/same. How does the factory loads shoot at 100 yds? How is the torque on the action screws? Is this in a factory stock? Glass bedded? Have you gotten all of the copper fouling out of the bore? Scope of known reliability? Try seating the cast boolits back a little bit, off the lands. Have you recovered any bullets that have been shot? Barrel is free floated? Have you tried a spacer under the fore tip of the stock to put a little upward pressure on the barrel?

Really stupid and basic questions, I know. But it never hurts to think about overlooked possibilities.

[DeanWinchester]

All torque is to factory spec using a Snap On torque wrench (inch pound measure)
as is the scope base and rings. The base is epoxy bedded.

I haven't tried 150g factory loads......but I will. I swore I'd never feed this rifle jackets but I guess I'm a liar. The box of 168g stuff shot awesome. I've got several ammo cans full of various jacketed stuff I've loaded over the years. Everything from 150g JHP to 175g SMK and 180g ballistic tips. Next range trip I'm going to take an assortment and see if there's any inconsistency.

Even though it shot VERY well, I can't justify the price of Hornady TAP. Which I knew what powder they used in those. Up it's probably a proprietary powder.

[Silverboolit]

Please let us know on how the assorted j-words shot at 50 yds. I struggled for over a year with my Howa to finally get it to shoot.

[Silverboolit]

Another stupid idea.... Loosen the front action screw and see if the barrel/front of receiver moves up.

[country gent]

While you are discounting it recoil/pressure curves/ movements can and do affect a rifles performance thru the barrels harmonics and compression of stock and or bedding surfaces. Lower pressure lighter loads dont always give the same harmonics waves as do other ammo as to super loads not always giving the same. I wasnt impluing rest was a problem but that a slightly diffrent techniqye might be required with this rifle. bench rest shooters use many diffrent techniques tricks to get the bug hole groups. Another one is the big double rifles (think Holland and Holland in the large calibers) arnt shot from a bench to regulate them but from a shooting post and back of hand set into padding to support rifle as this allows rifle to recoil naturally and freely not as much effects of harmonics ( or broken stocks and collar bones). Yes same rifle, same rest, same hold,same distance only diffrence ammo and pressures its producing.

[DeanWinchester]

While you are discounting it recoil/pressure curves/ movements can and do affect a rifles performance thru the barrels harmonics and compression of stock and or bedding surfaces. Lower pressure lighter loads dont always give the same harmonics waves as do other ammo as to super loads not always giving the same. I wasnt impluing rest was a problem but that a slightly diffrent techniqye might be required with this rifle. bench rest shooters use many diffrent techniques tricks to get the bug hole groups. Another one is the big double rifles (think Holland and Holland in the large calibers) arnt shot from a bench to regulate them but from a shooting post and back of hand set into padding to support rifle as this allows rifle to recoil naturally and freely not as much effects of harmonics ( or broken stocks and collar bones). Yes same rifle, same rest, same hold,same distance only diffrence ammo and pressures its producing.

Oh, gotcha.
Well if that's the case, maybe this rifle needs to go too. Defeats the idea of having a dependable utility rifle if it's picky like a dang woman.

[tomme boy]

Picky, I have one that really likes free recoil. If you lay your head on the stock it shoots like cr*p. But if you have it secured in the bags and just touch off the trigger, it will put 7 rounds into a 0.2" group.

Every is just like a woman. Just have to figure out what makes them purr!