Scavenging reloading supplies

[dudel]

I'll admit to taking shot shells apart for the components. The only component I save is the shot. It's for making 38 Spl and 357 Mag shotshells. I don't need a 25# bag of #7 shot; but taking a few shotshells apart gives me the shot I need for making the shotshells. It's a good way of trying different sized shot, without having to purchase pounds of it. Precision Reloading even makes a handy tool for breaking down the shells if you don't want to save the hulls.

Hull and wad is discarded, powder disposed of, and primer made inert.

[dubber123]

Ok, I finished up early at work, and bailed when the boss had his back turned.. I washed most of the dirt off my glasses and took my precision crafted mystery ammo out for a test run. I ran 1 across the chrono, 852 fps. Respectable for a 155 gr. boolit, but not surprising at all.

I set a hand scribbled target up at 20 yds. and rested my wrists off Ye Olde Barracudas roof. The next 4 shot right to POA, and made a 1.58" group. This gun is capable of better, but I'm way rusty. I may load up some more and try later when it's cooler and I have better light.

[dubber123]

I believe we've all made it clear it's a bad idea. BUT, I think if you proceed with the assumption you're working with Norma R1 powder you should be okay. Lol!

Thats the train of thought I am following. R-1 and Bullseye are at 3 numbers apart on a 246 place burn chart in front of me. Basically identical. Yes, using a burn rate chart for load data is not recommended, but it sure gives you a good idea of what you are dealing with. If you plan for worst case scenario, and then subtract a little more, I feel perfectly safe working up a load. This was done with "junk" reclaimed components. How many threads dealing with poor shooting 9mm's do we see? Lots. This one just shot in 1.5" at 20 yds. I bet that would make a lot of 9mm casters on here happy.

[Old Caster]

I deal with checking velocities on pull down powder all the time and if you follow procedure it is pretty simple and quite safe. I always start with 2 grains of powder with a 148 grain bullet in a model 27 Smith. Sometimes the bullet won't make it out of the barrel and I have to up it just to get a velocity reading. Obviously don't put your chronograph up until things are running in a reasonable fashion. The thing I noticed that could get a person in trouble the most is how a powder will act as though it has a different burn rate depending on the caliber. I once checked a powder that I eventually decided was just a bit slower than Unique in the 38 and it was quite predictable but when I went to the 9mm and 45 I expected that it might not work at all because of its bulk but did not follow Unique loads and found that it acted close to Bullseye in those cases. If I had thought that because it acted slower than Unique in the 38 it would do the same in a 9 and 45, I could have gotten in trouble. If you always start with a ridiculously low amount in each caliber and work up it is simple other than possibly having to pound a bullet out of a barrel and making your gun dirty before getting up to speed.

[dubber123]

I deal with checking velocities on pull down powder all the time and if you follow procedure it is pretty simple and quite safe. I always start with 2 grains of powder with a 148 grain bullet in a model 27 Smith. Sometimes the bullet won't make it out of the barrel and I have to up it just to get a velocity reading. Obviously don't put your chronograph up until things are running in a reasonable fashion. The thing I noticed that could get a person in trouble the most is how a powder will act as though it has a different burn rate depending on the caliber. I once checked a powder that I eventually decided was just a bit slower than Unique in the 38 and it was quite predictable but when I went to the 9mm and 45 I expected that it might not work at all because of its bulk but did not follow Unique loads and found that it acted close to Bullseye in those cases. If I had thought that because it acted slower than Unique in the 38 it would do the same in a 9 and 45, I could have gotten in trouble. If you always start with a ridiculously low amount in each caliber and work up it is simple other than possibly having to pound a bullet out of a barrel and making your gun dirty before getting up to speed.

And there you go. I assumed Bullseye speed, and in this case, it was pretty close.

[Harter66]

Just 1 more factor in the powder. That powder in the shot shells is intended to be zero (or very nearly) space under the wad which may be a design of long ridgid or high compression that allows the crimp to open before the wad bottoms against the shot charge . They may be a near solid wad (not likely in trap dove loads). In any event your putting in a completely different environment w/an air space and solid projectile.
No offense intended to those w/more knowledge, but look at Trail Boss. It spikes fast and will go well beyond safe pressures w/to much space and w/o enough. dabbling in BP has me thinking if you have an unknown powder in a zero space loading then it should always be treated that way until it is a known and proper data is available. Taking it to the other extreme what if you assume it is fast like R1 or Bullseye and it turns out to be more like Steel ,4227or H110 (I know probably only in a 410 on the last 2) . You stick a couple of bullets and then the thing spikes and all of the sudden your bullet sticking 5kpsi load jumps to 45kspi and your BHP Glock-nades . Actually possible w/H110.

Which Apple Valley ? There are a couple of areas and a town in SoCal. I might be presueded to road trip soon.

[DeputyDog25]

Make sure you check Powder Bot everyday, several times a day and you will find the powder you need. The lead is easy, plenty of honest people on this site to get lead from. Welcome aboard, we are glad you're here.

[dubber123]

I wish I wasn't as rusty guys, my shooting is just not up to par., I just ran out and fired group #2, still 20 yds. wrists off the car roof. I knew it wasn't going to be good, and it wasn't, 2.5", with 4 in 1.9". All fed and ejected as normal. I chronoed my normal load of 3.5 grs. of Green Dot, and it was faster by almost 60 fps. than the reclaimed component load. I wanted a load that approximated a decent .38 Spl, and either of these do that. So far, not a thing gives me cause for concern with the scavenged components.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Listen to the people that have already posted. They know what they are talking about. This is an bad (mistake) accident looking for a place to happen.

[Old Caster]

There is no powder that you can load too lightly and somehow blow up your gun. Only if you put in too much considering weight of bullet or fire one behind one already stuck in the barrel. The idea that a slow powder like H110 can detonate is not correct and has been proven over and over. Back when powder manufacturers weren't sure, they went into a CYA mode and said don't do it and have since changed. A slow powder like 110 if loaded too lightly will sometimes foof instead of explode and leave a bullet in the barrel so the next one that does fire correctly will be doing it behind a clogged barrel. Obviously by what has been written so far the OP is smarter than that. Dubber, just remember to start over every time you change calibers.

[dubber123]

There is no powder that you can load too lightly and somehow blow up your gun. Only if you put in too much considering weight of bullet or fire one behind one already stuck in the barrel. The idea that a slow powder like H110 can detonate is not correct and has been proven over and over. Back when powder manufacturers weren't sure, they went into a CYA mode and said don't do it and have since changed. A slow powder like 110 if loaded too lightly will sometimes foof instead of explode and leave a bullet in the barrel so the next one that does fire correctly will be doing it behind a clogged barrel. Obviously by what has been written so far the OP is smarter than that. Dubber, just remember to start over every time you change calibers.

I doubt this will happen very often, if ever again with me. I have plenty of components in stock, and certainly didn't need to do it this time, I just did it to prove a point, that if you take the time to look at the facts, not just guess, or not do something because so and so told you, many things are safely possible.

[RG1911]

There are a *lot* of powders that will work well in the 9mm. One of my favorites was Alcan AL-7, which I don't think is available anymore. Others are Red Dot, Bullseye, and Unique. Probably Titegroup, Titewad, and Accurate No. 2. Usually some place has at least one of these in stock.

The best cast bullet I used in the 9mm is the Lyman 356402 124-grain truncated cone.

Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading.

Cheers,
Richard

[DeanWinchester]

There are a *lot* of powders that will work well in the 9mm. One of my favorites was Alcan AL-7, which I don't think is available anymore. Others are Red Dot, Bullseye, and Unique. Probably Titegroup, Titewad, and Accurate No. 2. Usually some place has at least one of these in stock.

The best cast bullet I used in the 9mm is the Lyman 356402 124-grain truncated cone.

Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading.

Cheers,
Richard

i use use that same boolit too. It's awesome!
I've never used Alcan but I too am using an unavailable powder with it. I was given several pounds of HS-5. They work extremely well together.

[dubber123]

Still not out of these premium components , so I loaded some and tried another group, total group size at 20 yds., 1.4", 4 in 1.25". This is very close to what my regular load does, and the difference is probably how rusty I am. If any of you 9mm guys can get a BRP 360640 mold, I highly recommend it.

[timtiminy]

Which Apple Valley ? There are a couple of areas and a town in SoCal. I might be presueded to road trip soon.

The Town of Apple Valley. Near Victorville, in the Mojave Desert.

[DrCaveman]

Wow. Timtiminy, i think you're doing FINE. You asked a pretty reasonable question. It reminds me of a thread i started where i questioned the necessity of resizing 45 acp brass since i was battling swage-down from lee FCD. Sure, i learned many things from SOME responses but the asses requesting my address so they could avoid me at the range were beyond useless

Ill side with the people recommending to not try this experiment with 9mm. As stated, 38spl and 45 colt are much more forgiving, especially in strong (ruger etc) guns. It aint that hard to figure out a powder burn rate if you have taken some wise steps and learn to be slow, cautious, and observant

People: ever heard of proof loads? Every gun you own was shot at least once with loads rated for higher pressure than cartridge is rated. It dont make it onto the shelves otherwise

Tim, be careful. And welcome to the board. Pay attention, wear a thick skin, and dont be afraid to ask these kind of questions

As for you stating that you can find powder... HA! That is NOT the case anywhere near here. And i suspect it is because of Gunbot and the like that NONE of my LGS's can get their hands on the powder in bulk...which would save everbody shipping and hazmat fees on small orders... We got a bunch of wannabe dealers who have more damn powder in their garage than the frickin stores do. Silly

[snuffy]

There's a whole bunch of wrong guesses in this thread. There's a bunch of powder we use to load pistol and revolver loads, that is also used in many shotshell loads.

The opposite is also correct, shotshell powders work well in handgun loads. There's several though that have no dual usage. I've never seen a load for bullseye for shotgun or WW-231. However red-dot IS used in both. Even in 30-06 light cast loads.

Those el cheapo Federal target load powder is almost certainly in the burn rate of red-dot, clays, 700-X, nitro-100 and other fast burn rate target shotshell powder. The procss dubber is using is exactly what I would use with a mystery powder. The one thing that is known is the current usage. Starting with the fastest powder that we can get,, bullseye, with a starting load, is safe and will tell you that the mystery powder is most likely a bit slower.

If times were tough, and I still had primers and lead, I would NOT hesitate to use that salvaged powder.

Now for the shot. Shotshell shot is all over the spectrum as to how hard it is. The cheaper the finished shell, the softer the shot. You do NOT get the super hard shot in an economy ,(cheep), loads like the federal 100 packs. it's real soft stuff, no more that 2-3% antimony and a trace of tin. It might be too soft to work well for 9mm boolits, without adding some tin and antimony.

Shells like the Remington STS, Winchester AA, or Federal gold medal, all have very hard high antimony pellets that resist the deformation caused by the sudden acceleration and the trip through a choke. That lead all by itself would work well for 9mm boolits.

I say the above coming from one who has over 50 years reloading just about everything. At first, it was shotshells for hunting ducks and geese. It was at a time that was a transition from paper shells, and fiber/paper wads into plastic sells and plastic one-piece wads.

After that I got envolved in handgun metallic silhouette shooting. The equipment race set in, I was soon loading for a wildcat 7X47* shell for use in a single shot XP-100 Remington bolt action handgun. Also some 35 Remington for a TC contender that would take apart a lever gun if they were fired in one.

[Bullwolf]

I've never seen a load for bullseye for shotgun


If times were tough, and I still had primers and lead, I would NOT hesitate to use that salvaged powder.

Sorry for the partial quote, but I was really only replying to those two lines.

Older Hercules/Alliant manuals had 12 gauge loads that used Bullseye. There is probably a good reason why they don't any longer, but the data exists.



I agree with you Snuffy, times would have to be extremely hard before I tore down shotgun shells to salvage the powder and shot for use in other cartridges, but if things were that bad I would not hesitate to do so.

While I do understand how to go about doing it safely, it's not something that I would recommend, suggest, or trust someone else to perform.




- Bullwolf

[Harter66]

Probably wouldn't be too bad in my stash #6 and up is definately Unique and 8-9 are definately Red Dot , if its steel it's 800x or 4756........for now.

[dubber123]

I can tell you that despite it working in my limited testing, whatever the low end Federals use for powder does not resemble any canister powder I have ever bought or seen. It "looks" like the cheapest stuff they could buy to make usable shells. It obviously is still repeatable and consistent within a range, or they couldn't use it. I just wouldn't say it is high quality stuff.