Jacketed And Cast Bullet Loads Are Not The Same, Part 1

[Newtire]

That being said I agree with the OP's point that you can't simply interchange components and expect all to go well.

Amen to that 2ndAmendmentNut.

[UBER7MM]

I'll stick my neck out....

Stay within the published reloading manuals' recommended charges.

[GoodOlBoy]

Like many have said I have no dog in this hunt.

The ONLY thing I would like to respond to is the statement

...because cast can't be shot over 1200fps because the lead will strip as it goes past it's tensile strength because...

Uhm that depends on the lead. Very hard cast lead can be pushed to higher velocities than very soft cast lead. IE Hardball vs Pure. Linotype vs 40-1 etc. I have pushed very hard cast lead WELL beyond 1200fps and had accurate rounds and zero leading from it. Heck if that didn't work companies like Oregon Trail would be out of business.

That being said always follow published data for your firearm and components, loads safe in my firearms may not be safe in yours, and always remember to courtesy flush for those of us in the next stall.

Thanks

GoodOlBoy

[waksupi]

Well, I've shot water dropped wheel weight boolits at over 2600 fps for groups of 1 5/8". You just have to work at it a bit.

[runfiverun]

his gun broke....
the lead boolits had nothing to do with it.
I use the same load in my 30 carbine whether it's copper coated lead or the regular kind, maybe I just got a better gun.
jebus...

[5 RING]

this is about to get really good

[2ndAmendmentNut]

My go to 357 load is a 158gr plain based, air cooled, WW alloy out of a 6" revolver that chronographs at 1400fps. I haven't chronographed the same load out of my 22" carbine, but I bet those suckers are really moving. No leading either.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Stuff the lot of you then,you can't load cast as high as jacketed because the lead slugs into the throat at ignition raising pressures to a dangerous level before dropping because cast can't be shot over 1200fps because the lead will strip as it goes past it's tensile strength because the PSI at the base is spread evenly even into the chamber walls which grips the case raising pressure more because of obturation of the loaded round.Man I need to lay down. Pat

But can you shoot a gas checked boolit without a gas check?

[Wayne Smith]

But can you shoot a gas checked boolit without a gas check?

Of course you can. With accuracy? I'll bet all the extra resistance deforms the boolit, and the higher pressure really messes with the RPM theory.

[dtknowles]

Why is everyone forgetting to use purple text!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[runfiverun]

little girl moved and took everything purple in the house with her..

[GoodOlBoy]

I have never had a problem shooting GC mold bullets without the GCs in a 30-30 winchester. Dunno why there would be an issue if the base of the bullet is clean flat and sharp.

GoodOlBoy

[mikeym1a]

This is fun! When I looked at the pics, and read the text, I thought 'HUH?' with furrowed brow. It didn't make sense to me. Then I read Larry Gibson's post, and then it made sense. Since that is the most common failure point, then the use of lead boolits is mostly coincidental. I could have happened at any time with any type of ammo, except that this time he was using a lead boolit. Makes sense to me. But, then, I don't know a lot...............mikey

[leeggen]

Do you suppose maybe the owner, of the M1, didn't realize he needed to lube those lead boolits? If he didn't then it just might come to real leading in the barrel.
CD

[KYCaster]

Stuff the lot of you then,you can't load cast as high as jacketed because the lead slugs into the throat at ignition raising pressures to a dangerous level before dropping because cast can't be shot over 1200fps because the lead will strip as it goes past it's tensile strength because the PSI at the base is spread evenly even into the chamber walls which grips the case raising pressure more because of obturation of the loaded round.Man I need to lay down. Pat

"Stuff the lot of you...." That makes me feel kind of dirty somehow......

I think I'll go take a shower. I think I'll have another shot of bourbon first....or maybe two. Maybe that will help erase that mental image.

And one more thing....I recently shot one of my cast boolits at 1202.65 fps without stripping.....even though it was very hot at the range, I managed to keep all my clothes on!

Jerry

[Larry Gibson]

I'll tell ya'll what, after that LSN 1903 thread I'm just scared silly now. Note all the cases mentioned of M1 Carbine bolts "bursting". What if you were next to the guy and that happened? By golly there goes and eye or if ya get it in the temple....hello St. Peter......

I gonna hang my M1 Carbines on the wall and recommend every one else do the same. They are just to dangerous to shoot. Obviously a poor design and improperly heat treated. How do we know all the "bad ones" have already broken? We don't so no sense taking a chance......

After all........Please, Larry, for the sake of all mankind....

So hang up them M1 Carbines boys.........

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

I think I want to make a nice display wall of those gonna break soon rifles.
please send them all to p.o. box 354 and I may re-imburse shipping,,, if they look nice.
I have a large wall available so don't be shy..

[sthwestvictoria]

The ONLY thing I would like to respond to is the statement

Uhm that depends on the lead. Very hard cast lead can be pushed to higher velocities than very soft cast lead. IE Hardball vs Pure. Linotype vs 40-1 etc. I have pushed very hard cast lead WELL beyond 1200fps and had accurate rounds and zero leading from it. Heck if that didn't work companies like Oregon Trail would be out of business.


GoodOlBoy

If you have another look at PAT303's post I think you will find it was typed using the Castboolits chain-pulling font PAT303 was just having a joke - us Australians may be upside down but we're not stupid.

[GoodOlBoy]

DOH sorry I missed the icon in the post! Now I feel like the ignoramus ! I know aussies ain't stupid. My first dive instructor was an aussie and a brilliant guy.

GoodOlBoy

[jonk]

I also fall on the side of the fence that an equal weight cast bullet with proper lube and of normal design will create less drag and pressure than it's jacketed counterpart. Try pushing a jacketed bullet through a push through sizer and a cast one. Which is easier?

I suspect that either the metal had an occlusion that let go coincidentally, or he was getting leading that raised the pressures significantly. I shoot that load in my M1 all the time; but some random box of gun show boolits with unknown lube and possibly no gas check would be a likely culprit.