Hevi-Shot Hog Wild 12ga dissection w pics

[Blood Trail]

So anyone try them on hogs? I would like to Try'em on pigs here in texas.

[cpileri]

I dont know anyone who has tried them, thats why i did the pictorial- so folks would have some info.

i definitely would love to try them on pigs!

No pigs in my immediate area of texas, but i am sure I can find some.
C-

[Blood Trail]

Only two types of land in Texas: those infested with hogs and those that will be infested with hogs.

[Geezer in NH]

Take the balls to your friendly recycled metals yard and have him hit it with his analyzer gun it might cost a couple of bucks but you will know what the alloy is.

[cpileri]

Not a bad idea. i will see if i can find a place around here, and will post the results if I do.
C-

[wildflilghts]

It's Zinc! Good call Greg!
The following is the Press release from Hevi regarding Hog Wild not passing in the field Hot Shot Inspection.



Anyone else have a case of the Monday insanity hit their desk? This is what hit the HEVI-Shot office this morning....someone was using our Hog Wild product on a feral hog hunt that mandated non-toxic shot. Of course who else would you pick but us for that job? When the field detection device failed to register our zinc/steel balls in our hog wild shell the regulation officer automatically thought that it was lead. Our phones and emails blew up which prompted this letter from our CEO to Hagerman NWR.

Thank you for your letter.

The large balls in our Hog Wild product are zinc, not lead. A game warden using a Hot Shot inspection tool will read a zinc ball as a lead ball, because the Hot Shot device cannot presently discriminate between zinc and lead. This comes straight from Dennis Dorando, the inventor and producer of the Hot Shot device. We have worked with Dennis, providing samples and so on, since we started in 2000. I am copying Dennis on this email, should you wish to talk with him directly.

Dennis will tell you that the device may read copper, nickel, aluminum, zinc, and several other metals as lead, too. The reasons are technically complicated, and he can explain them, but they basically have to do with tradeoffs involved in optimizing his device to distinguish bismuth and tungsten-based shot from lead.

Our zinc ball contains no lead, regardless of what the Hot Shot device reads. It is nontoxic, in the sense that it contains no lead, and is substantially safer for aquatic and terrestrial life than copper (used in nontoxic bullets), according to the EPA's Freshwater Aquatic Toxicology data.

Here is a subtlety of the "non-toxic" designation:

For bullets and slugs, anything "non-lead", e.g. copper, guilding metal, steel core bullets, etc. is "non-toxic". In California and elsewhere, for bullets and slugs,

non-lead = non-toxic

This is not true of the non-toxic designation for waterfowl. Copper is not approved as non-toxic for waterfowl, for example, because in very small concentrations it kills various aquatic species. Copper bullets are considered non-toxic for hunting on federal and state lands, but copper shot is not approved as non-toxic for bird hunting.

Zinc is orders of magnitude less toxic to aquatic species than is copper according to the EPA, and (in my judgment, with 4 approvals) would pass the USFWS/EPA Tier 1 and Tier 2 screening for non-toxic approval.

Since bullet and hunting loads that are non-lead are "non-toxic", we designated Hog Wild as non-toxic. If we wanted to make zinc birdshot, we would have to go through the USFWS approval process in order to call it non-toxic.

From this discussion, I would ask you to inform future hunters that our Hog Wild shot is non-toxic zinc - which is true - and allow them to use it on your hunts. At a minimum, please don't prohibit it for the wrong reason, that you thought the balls were lead, when they are not.

In honor of the insanity we decided to banish the craziness by having a giveaway on our Facebook page! Go check it out at https://www.facebook.com/hevishotammo
And if you don't have Facebook, no problem! Just shoot us an email with your name and shipping address and we will add your name to the contest!
Happy hunting,
Kelly Sorensen
VP Sales & Marketing
HEVI-Shot

[cpileri]

they could have seen this coming:

castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?250372-Hevi-Shot-ball-analysis!-what-is-this-stuff-cuz-it-isn-t-quot-hevi-quot

esp if they knew the field tester device couldnt distinguish btwn lead and zinc.
C-

[wildflilghts]

Here is a follow up email I got from the manufacturer. A little more info:


Dear (cpileri) –

Setting aside the chemistry questions for now, l'll tell you what we know about impact on heavy bone with this load, which is not much. We have tested our frangible pellets (e.g. Dead Coyote!®) on bone in Perma-Gel (i.e. surrounded by a flesh-like fluid), and they go right through and look re-usable. Same result when firing into wood.

We haven't done a necropsy on a shot pig with these balls that helped us understand what the balls do against heavy bone, but I'm thinking they probably behave like our frangible pellets. That is, I would imagine they stay intact through the bone until they run out of energy and stop, either in or through the bone. The balls have about 10 times the tensile strength of lead balls, so they don't fragment as easily.

We do have field reports from hunters who have "blown up" pig skulls with head shots at 50 yards, so whatever is happening seems to work.

Thanks for your interest in HEVI-Shot and, when you get to try Hog Wild, please let us know how it goes for you.

Best Regards,
K---- S------
VP Sales & Marketing

This seems to infer that Dead Coyote is Zinc/Aluminum also? !!! Noticed the press release and your letter were both from Kelly Sorensen, VP Marketing

Yeah. I guess "really light shot" (with the trendy intentional misspelling of "lite-shawt") or "anorexic alloy shot" (go ahead, misspell that!) or "hawg weightless" wouldnt have been too good an ad campaign.

i dunno; maybe they were just trying not to copyright infringe on Dixie, so they made their unique spacers, and different diameter balls and said "lets make it faster than tri-ball, too"; and came up with this two- and three- low-density alloy load. then outsourced for 90zn/10al balls and got them with some impurities from whomever.

I plan to try a bunch of loads, these included, on beef femur either packed in newspaper or plumbers putty, whichever I can get when the time comes, and see how they do.

Lite-Sh@*t! They're giving it away on Facebook.

[Blood Trail]

It's Zinc! Good call Greg!
The following is the Press release from Hevi regarding Hog Wild not passing in the field Hot Shot Inspection.



Anyone else have a case of the Monday insanity hit their desk? This is what hit the HEVI-Shot office this morning....someone was using our Hog Wild product on a feral hog hunt that mandated non-toxic shot. Of course who else would you pick but us for that job? When the field detection device failed to register our zinc/steel balls in our hog wild shell the regulation officer automatically thought that it was lead. Our phones and emails blew up which prompted this letter from our CEO to Hagerman NWR.

Thank you for your letter.

The large balls in our Hog Wild product are zinc, not lead. A game warden using a Hot Shot inspection tool will read a zinc ball as a lead ball, because the Hot Shot device cannot presently discriminate between zinc and lead. This comes straight from Dennis Dorando, the inventor and producer of the Hot Shot device. We have worked with Dennis, providing samples and so on, since we started in 2000. I am copying Dennis on this email, should you wish to talk with him directly.

Dennis will tell you that the device may read copper, nickel, aluminum, zinc, and several other metals as lead, too. The reasons are technically complicated, and he can explain them, but they basically have to do with tradeoffs involved in optimizing his device to distinguish bismuth and tungsten-based shot from lead.

Our zinc ball contains no lead, regardless of what the Hot Shot device reads. It is nontoxic, in the sense that it contains no lead, and is substantially safer for aquatic and terrestrial life than copper (used in nontoxic bullets), according to the EPA's Freshwater Aquatic Toxicology data.

Here is a subtlety of the "non-toxic" designation:

For bullets and slugs, anything "non-lead", e.g. copper, guilding metal, steel core bullets, etc. is "non-toxic". In California and elsewhere, for bullets and slugs,

non-lead = non-toxic

This is not true of the non-toxic designation for waterfowl. Copper is not approved as non-toxic for waterfowl, for example, because in very small concentrations it kills various aquatic species. Copper bullets are considered non-toxic for hunting on federal and state lands, but copper shot is not approved as non-toxic for bird hunting.

Zinc is orders of magnitude less toxic to aquatic species than is copper according to the EPA, and (in my judgment, with 4 approvals) would pass the USFWS/EPA Tier 1 and Tier 2 screening for non-toxic approval.

Since bullet and hunting loads that are non-lead are "non-toxic", we designated Hog Wild as non-toxic. If we wanted to make zinc birdshot, we would have to go through the USFWS approval process in order to call it non-toxic.

From this discussion, I would ask you to inform future hunters that our Hog Wild shot is non-toxic zinc - which is true - and allow them to use it on your hunts. At a minimum, please don't prohibit it for the wrong reason, that you thought the balls were lead, when they are not.

In honor of the insanity we decided to banish the craziness by having a giveaway on our Facebook page! Go check it out at https://www.facebook.com/hevishotammo
And if you don't have Facebook, no problem! Just shoot us an email with your name and shipping address and we will add your name to the contest!
Happy hunting,
Kelly Sorensen
VP Sales & Marketing
HEVI-Shot

Yeah, I know the guys that started that on texasbowhunter.com. Hagerman wildlife refuge is an awesome place to hunt where the common man can shoot a monster deer. 150's are common there and 140's get passed on. It's archery only. They also have a ton of pigs.

They had a draw hunt for hogs every year, but only non-lead shot is allowed. Archery only for deer. My buddies got mad cuz the dropped a lot of coin on these heavy shot ammo only to be told it wasn't allowed.

And that's when the fight started.

Anyway, here's a few pigs of of hagerman. Google hagerman deer and check out the studs that come of this place.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

My first thought was zinc, but it would still have to be alloyed with something lighter, which is uncommon, or otherwise reduced in weight. But why shouldn't it be hollow, or composite? Early in the 20th century the Meade ball had a hollow sphere in its centre (copper?) to reduce recoil. It looks to have been suspended in the mould on some sort of stem, which was then removed and the hole filled with a lead pellet. Occasionally it was filled with an explosive compound, although that sounds like anything from a mediocre to murderously bad idea.

It wouldn't be difficult to die-cast a "tree" of smaller aluminium balls, and then, without removing them from the sprue, sandwich them in a full-diameter mould to case the heavier metal around them. Steel balls would have to be hollow. That is a lot of complication, but I do not suppose these things are (or were) cheap. There is a possibility that the bullet's mass wouldn't be precisely centred. Try marking the top with felt-tip as they lie, and then roll them around to see if there is a tendency for that mark to come to the top, like a crooked dice. It would affect accuracy more in a rifle than a smoothbore.

Presumably that game warden with the mendacious instrument couldn't make a charge stick. But that wouldn't be great consolation after the hunting season was lost.

Flax seed? If it was hemp it could get you locked up. Maybe the seeds would get crushed in firing, but various authorities have reported that rice used as a wad material (can't think why) gave abnormally high pressures. I equate this with sand, which will stop a bullet in less distance dry than damp. Dr. Franklin Mann experimented with sand as an inert substance to fill the airspace in cases, presumably with a barrel which had come to the end of its useful life. He found that it tore off the case-necks, which departed with the bullet.

[wildflilghts]

Ballistics in Scotland- We can get zinc alloyed with copper and aluminum from Rotometals.
It's called Zamak 2 Ingot (Aluminum 4%, Copper 3%, Zinc 93%). Rotometals is a castboolits sponsor.
http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/...2%20ingots.htm short video included.

[Blood Trail]

I have a bunch of kirksite that was thinking about trashing. Didn't know you could use it.

[Blood Trail]

Are those slits in the cup cut all the way thru?

[cpileri]

down to, but not through, the base of the wad

[Blood Trail]

down to, but not through, the base of the wad

Have you recovered the wads? If so, how did they look? I'm attempting to create a similar load(s) with .600 cal and .45 cal balls.

[cpileri]

I did, and chronicled that here in the forum. but I forget where, you'd have to search my posts and pictures.
C-

[Blood Trail]

I looked back and couldn't find any pics of spent wads.

Did you ever get to run these thru an animal? I bet they're hell on deer.

[cpileri]

let me take a look, give me some time though.

No, havent had a chance to test them on flesh yet.

[cpileri]

Im just checking my pics. This may or may not be the one you want.

[cpileri]

OK, i beleive those are end-on shots of the fired wads in he above pic. Hope that helps.