Bear Defense 45ACP

[TES]

well.....bear spray has no recoil and totally debilitates a bears senses. It can't see, smell or feel anything but pain. It also has a better chance of hitting it's target. One bear had 4 or 5 .38's and 12 7mm bullets in it before it died. Granted it was the largest bear ever shot and killed but it did also kill two hikers before death.

Just my 2 cents.

[bersa380]

A 45 would be better than a stick. But if I had a choice it wouldn't be my first.

[waksupi]

Poor choice to start with. If you are going to use it, find a flat point boolit. I do carry a .45acp here quite a bit. I know that if I have a problem with a bad bear, to stick my left hand in his mouth, and put a shot between eye and ear. Otherwise, he will most likely kill you, or at least give you a hell of a mauling. .45 acp is not bear medicine.

[jmort]

I would rather have bear spray as opposed to .45 ACP. Convert it to .460 Rowland and then I would consider it.

[blackthorn]

Tell your friend he had better research the stupid gun laws we have here in Canada! Even if he is immigrating here and he is going to OWN a huge tract of land, the only place he will be able to shoot anything with a handgun is within the confines of whatever property he OWNS! There are NO handguns allowed for hunting (or to be carried "just in case")! Gray Wolf has given some good advise on the use of a 12 gauge. I have hunted northern BC since 1956 and I have never come into close contact with a Griz (thank God). Personally, If I were choosing a defence "Bear gun" I would likely opt for a 4570 "Guide gun", and I would practice with it! A LOT!!!

[jonp]

I know this will generate a lot of comments as some will swear by a 45ACP in stopping a bear but I don't consider it adequate. It may be a last resort if that is all you have to carry as any gun is better than none but I would also carry Bear Spray if I was relaying on a 45ACP. For me the smallest I would go would be a 41 Mag.

How about a 45Colt revolver with a 300gr boolit loaded up to where he can stand the recoil? I'd be much more confidant with that and besides, if he is being charged by a bear the least of his worries will be recoil. I don't think he would even notice it and if he hurt his wrist saving himself from a bear attack I would consider that a better than even trade

You don't say what type of bears. Western Canada I'm assuming you mean Black?

[jonp]

well.....bear spray has no recoil and totally debilitates a bears senses. It can't see, smell or feel anything but pain. It also has a better chance of hitting it's target. One bear had 4 or 5 .38's and 12 7mm bullets in it before it died. Granted it was the largest bear ever shot and killed but it did also kill two hikers before death.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree. I remember running through a "gas house" in the military to show us what tear gas would do and it is totally involuntary. You have no control over what it does to your mucous glands. I got a good reminder years later when I worked nights as a greenskeeper at a resort. I carried pepper spray with me for dogs and one night the canister leaked in my pocket without me knowing. My eyes itched for some reason and without thinking I rubbed them. Yeah, that was stupid and a good lesson.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

The bfr would make a great sidearm when your allready carrying a 45-70 lever gun, friend won't hear of it.

"Great" if you like carrying a lot of weight. I guess I don't see the BFR as a practical woods gun. Probably just me.

[mpmarty]

Lube his boolits with bacon fat. That way when he drops the empty pistol and runs the bear may stop to sniff the gun letting him climb a tree.

[gray wolf]

I know very little to nothing about bears. I probably should not post anything based on that statement, but the 45 acp would beat a sharp stick or pocket knife. I know that is not an original statement either.

I hear this argument a lot, it seems to just roll out of peoples mouths. The old sharp stick thing.
Let me say it once more for the folks in the back row, When your life is being threatened, and the danger imminent, The threat needs to be stopped as in right now, as in put down and off it's feet without the ability to do harm, be it a Bear or otherwise.

Would you shoot to just wound a charging Bear because your just a nice person ? ( insert fool )
Of course not, You need to badly break a shoulder or both or severely damage a hip,
first choice being the CNS. A Bear is not going to start a charge from 100 yards away, pick a distance, lets say it's 25/30 yards away. You first need to to Bear savvy enough to know if the Bear is legit on his charge or just bluffing. You can't just shoot every bear that stand on it's hind feet and looks at you, or paws at the ground with it's head down.

So if Mr. Bear starts coming from 30 yards away he will be on you in a few seconds, So you have to draw, aim and shoot at a moving, bobbing and weaving target in that amount of time.

Needless to say you have to hit what your shooting at while under a great amount of stress.
The arm chair comandoes can say what they want, doing it is another pile of Beans.
Have someone tie a rope onto a cardboard box about 18 inches square, put the box about 20 yards away,
Make sure your friend is behind you.
stand at the ready with pistol holstered and have the friend start pulling the box in your direction as fast as he can. You draw when the box starts to move. Count the hits you get before the box is to close to shoot at.

Then try it with the pistol at the ready and see what hits you get.

I love the folks that think cause they have a gun, they are ready,-- ready and prepared for what ?
Confrontations no matter what they may be are rarely stacked in your favor.

[AKbushman49]

Master Mechanic- Is he moving to BC? If that's the case, get him a copy of "Alaska Bear Tales" and make him read it! Most probably be encountering Blacks and Browns. The Coastal bears are larger in body than their Interior counterparts. I live in bear country. Every year we read or know of a bear encounter locally. Even the venerable 44 Mag is marginal if trying to stop a charging grizzly! In such cases you need a whole lot of STOPPING POWER! Enough to knock the animal back a pace or two, so you can reload and put another into it. IMHO The 45 ACP IS NOT ADEQUATE!!!!! A large/powerful caliber rifle would be better.
bushman
On this subject just saw a video clip of a sow with two cubs that charged a couple of workers who filmed it. The sow charged @ ~15 yds, covered the ground in less than 4 seconds. Result one fatality, the other in critical. The fatality was consumed by the bear. I believe the video was taken in Russia. Never the less they can move a lot quicker than one thinks. And these folks were ill advised to let their dog antagonize the sow to begin with. Very chilling indeed!

[Master_Mechanic]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. On the note of the rifle, would you carry loads using jacketed soft point expanding bullets or would you carry a harder cast lead boolit?

[oger]

Agree, on the 460 Roland conversion that was what it was designed for.

[garym1a2]

A good autoloader 12awg with slugs would be my first choice. A good 45-70 leval gun another choice. In the US I would say a short barrel M1A with a 20 round mag.

How about a glock 20?

[Hickory]

If you like excitement use the 45 acp,
the sad part is, the excitement will most likely be at the end part of your stay here on earth.

[DougGuy]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. On the note of the rifle, would you carry loads using jacketed soft point expanding bullets or would you carry a harder cast lead boolit?

Harder wide flat nose. Don't have to be BHN22 but 12-14 makes a tough boolit and being solid it will penetrate in feet which is what you need for any large animal, bear or otherwise.

Two on the left came through 32+ inches of seasoned oak, from a short barreled Vaquero, over 22.5gr W296, recoil is severe but look how much hardwood the boolit was driven through. THIS is what you would hope you are armed with in case you have to stop a bear with a pistol.

On the right is 320gr Lee C452-300-RF which would hands down be my #1 choice in straight walled pistol cartridges for bear or dangerous animals:

[Beerd]

Lube his boolits with bacon fat. That way when he drops the empty pistol and runs the bear may stop to sniff the gun letting him climb a tree.

Best idea yet
..

[jonp]

Better yet have your buddy carry the backpack with the fatback in it

[Beerd]

can't depend on having an available buddy, but I'm always there when I need me.
..

[mtnman31]

If he can't handle the recoil of a more potent pistol, he should really keep his rifle handy. Is it really that much slower to unsling a rifle than draw a pistol? If he wants a back up to the rifle, get some bear spray - it is effective and works. A pistol is probably a little more comforting but if all the pistol is going to do is anger the bear and cause it a slow, painful death as he digests you, why not use the spray?

Reality is, if he is alert and observant while he is out and about, he will prevent 99% of the up-close bear encounters. I grew up in grizzly country (Montana), staying alert and leaving when I encountered bears has kept me from ever having anything remotely scary happen.