A long barreled TC Contender pistol might work. I loaded up some 300 gr 44 Magnum ammo for my 77/44 Ruger bolt action. Used Unique but any fast burning powder might be OK. Very quiet.
There are earplugs with a valve in them that closes when hit with noise. Might try those.
Some states allow hunting with suppressors.
That is normal. I read somewhere as men age they loose hearing in the upper frequency ranges and as women age their voices rise in pitch. Just nature taking care of business!My hearing tends to just be impaired to the frequencies that are around the ones of my wife's voice. Unfortunately, not completely deaf to those frequencies since some of her noise still gets through.
"Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyrannies.” Aristotle
Yeah, as long as you remember to put them on before pulling the trigger. A few weeks ago, I was measuring the decibels at various places around my house from my 10mm fired in my garage. On the last shot, I had the muffs in one hand and the gun in the other hand and fired into my backstop. Both hands were in front of me on the gun no less. I realized I had made a mistake before the trigger was pulled, but the signal had been sent to my finger to pull the trigger and I could not cancel the signal. My ears were ringing for over a week. A 10mm inside a garage is LOUD.Originally Posted by brtelec
The quietest pistol I ever fired was a 14" Contender .357max shooting .38 148gr wadcutters. It was more quiet than a .22 rifle for some reason. Made a weird "floop" noise.
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I had a time passing my retirement physical from the Navy , I was a Gunner , plus all those years of the constant noise on a ship underway , had come to haunt me .. My hearing was gone in one ear at 6500Hz , the other at 7000Hz .. I have had tinnitus since I was 17 and joined the Navy . Forty years of ringing ears is no fun .. A shotgun is about the only thing I shoot without hearing protection , unless I'm carrying the 9mm on our property to pop any rattlers that come walking by ..
Schamankungulo
Matt. 5:14-16
GMCS USN ret.
YOU ARE DAMAGING YOUR HEARING BY DOING THATThanks for the useful responses. Ive seen the charts showing various decibel levels of different calibers, supressed and non-supressed. To say the least, i was unimpressed with the levels of reduction even with a 22. The numbers still showed pain and moderate damage.
I am wanting to set up a little test, since i have access to some high quality sound meters. All decibel readings are not the same... Certain frequencies can do more damage than others, and also, hearing loss in certain frequencies is more of a detriment than others.
Very few sound meters respond to the rapid pressure rise of a gun shot - this will help you see if your equipment is up to the task
http://www.silencertests.com/standards.htm
http://silencertalk.com/2209-method.htm
I wanted some suggestions regarding gun and load, and i think Piedmont has pointed me in a good direction. Also i will shop around for some good electronic muffs.
You will find with foam ear plus and electronic muffs you can turn up the muffs to hear normally and be protected in most cases keep in mind that multiple methods used together are no additive (28 NRR plugs + 20 NRR muffs won't equal 48 NRR total protection)
I mixed sound for live music shows for years, and so that might have made me more sensitive than some. I surely sustained a bit of hearing loss, but nothing like an old fella shooting matches for 30 years with no muffs, and shoeing horses on the side. The only guys my dads age i know that need aids are also the most avid shooters.
That may be because a lot of us just refuse to admit we need help and just talk louder to our friends
Amazing to remember that we neved used plugs or muffs when plinking as a kid. No wonder we saved the 7mag for last, and only shot it about 3-4 times
Hey, i just want to throw in that i hunt waterfowl with no plugs, no prob. Thats with 2-4 guys shooting 12 gauges. Something about that is less damaging than pistols. Probably mostly barrel length and lack of cylinder gap, but maybe the fast shotgun powders help the issue
For someone who is professional aligned with music, I find some of your statements to be ignorant.
http://www.freehearingtest.com/hia_gunfirenoise.shtml
Gunfire Noise Level Reference ChartBelow we have listed critical data describing peak sound pressure levels produced by firearms used in shooting and hunting sports. A serious byproduct of this exposure is sensory-neural hearing loss, which cannot be restored to normal. With the introduction of MUZZLE BRAKES and PORTING, the risks of hearing loss dramatically increase. Use this chart as a reference guide for promoting the need of using adequate hearing protection.
Notations
Keep in mind that conversational speech is approximately 60-65 dB, and the threshold of pain is considered to be 140 dB. According to Dr. William Clark, Ph.D. senior research scientist in charge of the NOISE LABORATORY at the Central Institute for the Deaf in St. Louis, the damage caused by one shot from a .357 magnum pistol, which can expose a shooter to 165 dB for 2msec, is equivalent to over 40 hours in a noisy workplace.Dr. Krammer, Ph.D., Ball State University, Muncie, Indiana has documented the following pressure levels.
Table 1. SHOTGUN NOISE DATA (DECIBEL AVERAGES)
.410 Bore 28" barrel 150dB 26" barrel 150.25dB 18 _" barrel 156.30dB 20 Gauge 28" barrel 152.50dB 22" barrel 154.75dB 12 Gauge 28" barrel 151.50dB 26" barrel 156.10dB 18 _" barrel 161.50dB
Dr. Krammer continues to say that shotgun noise averaged slightly more that 150dB. This is approximately 14dB beyond the threshold of pain, and more than sufficient to cause sudden hearing loss with complications.
Table 2. CENTERFIRE RIFLE DATA
Krammer adds that sound pressure levels for the various pistols and ammunition tested yielded an average mean of 157.5 dB, which is greater than those previously shown for shotgun and rifle noise levels. There was also a greater range, from 152.4dB to 164.5dB, representing 12 dB difference, or more than 10 time as much acoustic energy for the top end of the pistol spectrum. It should be noticed that this figure of 164.5 dB approaches the practical limit of impulse noise measurement capability inherent in most modern sound level meters.
.223, 55GR. Commercial load 18 _" barrel 155.5dB .243 in 22" barrel 155.9dB .30-30 in 20" barrel 156.0dB 7mm Magnum in 20" barrel 157.5dB .308 in 24" barrel 156.2dB .30-06 in 24" barrel 158.5dB .30-06 in 18 _" barrel 163.2dB .375 — 18" barrel with muzzle brake 170 dB
Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA
The above averages are for all types of ammunition used in these firearms, and should be considered fairly representative. No wonder we hear numerous reports about hearing loss as a result of firearms including acoustic traumas that take hearing completely as a result of one shot. Imagine what the noise levels must be when we incorporate muzzle brakes or porting into firearms, or have a gun explode near the ear due to malfunction.
.25 ACP 155.0 dB .32 LONG 152.4 dB .32 ACP 153.5 dB .380 157.7 dB 9mm 159.8 dB .38 S&W 153.5 dB .38 Spl 156.3 dB .357 Magnum 164.3 dB .41 Magnum 163.2 dB .44 Spl 155.9 dB .45 ACP 157.0 dB .45 COLT 154.7 dB
OUR WARNING IS SIMPLE AND IS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF EACH SHOOTER. AS THE SOUND PRESSURES INCREASE, SO DOES THE RISK OF PERMANENT HEARING LOSS. IF YOU INCORPORATE A PROCEDURE INTO YOUR SHOOTING THAT INCREASES THE SOUND LEVEL, YOU ALSO INCREASE THE RISK OF HEARING LOSS TO YOURSELF AND POSSIBLY THOSE WHO STAND NEAR YOU. BE SURE TO USE ADEQUATE EAR PROTECTION WHEN USING A FIREARM AND BE CAREFUL OF THOSE NEARBY. LAWSUITS HAVE ALREADY BEEN RECOGNIZED FOR GUNFIRE NOISE THAT HAS RESULTED IN HEARING LOSS. ALWAYS CONSULT A PROFESSIONAL AUDIOLOGIST, OTOLOGIST, OR OTOLARYNGOLOGIST WITH YOUR HEARING PROBLEMS. Hearing loss is not fun and can be prevented.
Sources of noise that can cause hearing loss include motorized equipment, firecrackers, and small firearms, all emitting sounds from 120 to 150 decibels as in impluse.
Long or repeated exposure to sounds at or above 85 decibels can and will cause hearing loss.
The louder the sound, the shorter the time period before noise induced hearing loss (NIHL) can occur.
Sounds of less than 75 decibels, even after long exposure, are unlikely to cause hearing loss.
But long term noise above 75 will damage your hearing, it doesn't harm your hearing in a big way, right away.
But the damage is cumulative and irreversable and you should be wearing hearing protection if exposed to loud noise.
But the Standard for "hearing Safe" short duration impulse noises are set as 140 db for impulse noise by the agencies involved.
Any Suppressor that changes the pressure level to below 140 db "can" be considered as "safe".
Of course the more reduction the better.
And I know a lot of people who shoot thinking 22 rimfire, shotguns, etc. are safe and they are not.
For people who have not been exposed to the Logarithmic scale of sound measurement let me post some classic's
0 db - Threshold of hearing - Don’t hear anything sound proof room
10 db - Broadcast studio interior or rustling leaves - 1/32nd as loud as conversation
20 db - Quiet house interior or rural nighttime - 1/16th as loud
30 db - Quiet office interior or watch ticking - 1/8th as loud
40 db - Quiet rural area or small theater - 1/4th as loud (and what our ears enviromentally were developed for)
50 db - Quiet suburban area or dishwasher in next room - 1/2 as loud
60 db - Office interior or ordinary conversation between two people in quiet environment - Ordinary Conversation
70 db - Vacuum cleaner at 10 feet away from you
NOTE - hearing damage by continuous levels can start above 75 db
80 db - Passing car at 10 ft. or garbage disposal at 3 ft - 4 times as loud
90 db - Passing bus or truck at 10 ft. or food blender at 3 feet. - 8 times as loud
100 db - Passing subway train at 10 feet or gas lawn mower at 3 ft. - 16 times as loud
110 db - Night club with band playing or Chainsaw, 1 meter distance- 32 times as loud
120 db - Threshold of pain instant pain ringing of ears- 64 times as loud as conversation (twice as loud as night club)
140 db - Jet aircraft, 50 meter away
ref'd links
http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/hear...ges/noise.aspx
http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOf...sureLevels.htm
Some measurements of real world sounds measured @ http://www.silencerresearch.com/deci...ce_library.htm
Daisy Red Ryder BB Gun 94dB to 98dB
Ruger 10/22 Hammer Falling on an Empty Chamber 102-103.5dB
Ruger 10/22 Bolt Drop on an Empty Chamber 112-113dB
Browning Buckmark Hammer Falling on an Empty Chamber 107-110dB
Browning Buckmark Bolt Drop on an Empty Chamber 112-112.5dB
Colt AR15 635 Style Upper Bolt Drop on empty chamber 114-119dB
Black Maxx Paintball Gun shot with paintball 116.5dB to 119dB
Black Maxx Paintball Gun shot without paintballs 126dB
Mossberg 44US Target Rifle 26" Barrel CCI Subsonics 128dB to 129.5dB
Mossberg 44US Target Rifle 26" Barrel CCI CB Longs 121.7dB
Mossberg 44US Target Rifle 26" Barrel Remington Subsonics 129dB to 131dB
All these measurements were done with Mil-spec sound meter 1 meter from object being measured.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...r%29-questions
As far as hunting with a quiet weapon - Bow and Arrow / Crossbow number one choice
Firearms - smallest bore with largest accurate projectile at below transonic speeds with least amount of powder to launch it and ideally using a sound suppressor on the end of the barrel.
Look into 300 Blackout/Whisper suppressed/silenced pistol/rifles using heavy boolit subsonic loads
38/357's single shot/carbine using heavy bullet subsonic loads and suppressed.
Even 44 or 45 using heavy bullet subsonic suppressed again not a wheel gun.
Note the larger the bore size the larger the amount of air moved and the harder to be quiet.
a subsonic 22LR sounds much quieter than a large 45 "killer bee" whizzing by.
Here's what you would get with 44 spl subsonic suppressed
Last edited by Artful; 07-13-2014 at 06:00 PM.
je suis charlie
It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.
Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
The more quiet than a .22 rifle is because usually people shoot high velocity 22LR that goes faster than the speed of sound and causes a miniature sonic boom as it goes down range - the .38 was subsonic and all of the powder was probably used up before it left the muzzle of the 14" barrel.
Example with full power subsonic 357 mag
je suis charlie
It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.
Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Type 1 Sound Level Meters with peak hold are expensive and rare. We lose high frequency hearing first, regardless the frequency characteristic of the noise, because our inner ears have the higher frequency responding hair cells arranged at the entrance to the inner ear (oval window); this is sometimes referred to as the foyer carpet effect. By the time you notice loss of hearing, there has been a tremendous loss of outer hair cell tissue and much diffuse damage that will progress more rapidly. Ear muffs are fair alone and less so if thick eye glass temples are worn. Foam plugs are great if seated so that the outer surface is level with or just deeper in ear than the tragus (hardly anyone wears them properly). Muffs and plugs are excellent although the dB attenuation will register small, the few dB attenuated from the top represents a great deal of energy, every 3 dB represents a doubling of energy.
prs
Same here with a 14 inch Contender in 44 Magnum. No barrel cylinder gap must be plus. But still hearing protection is habit we all should be in.
If you don't want battery powered muffs there are those ZEM brand muffs. They use a hollow tube called a "sound chamber" to pick up normal levels of sound but block the loud sounds. They are smaller and lighter than electronic muffs and no batteries are good where I hunt up here in the cold. There not as clear and crisp as electronic ones though.
Oh great, another thread that makes me spend money.
Ive already tested myself to show that i cant hear above 16kHz. Sensitivity all the way down to 10kHz is very low, it takes a lot of SPL for me to hear it
Below that is where i would like to try to reduce the loss. Everyday activity (driving in traffic, blowers/air compressors running at shop, loud kids in the pizza parlor playground, bustling coffeeshop, etc) can cause damage over long durations.
Artful: i appreciate your concern, and am familiar with the charts and references you have provided. What they do not differentiate between (and the intent of the OP) is the difference between various particular loads and barrel lengths (other than the shotguns). Even in the shotguns they do not say whether it is skeet loads or turkey loads. One is a 'bit' louder than the other
I have NO DOUBT that a different powder and bullet choice can produce different loudness from the same gun. I hope there is no agrument there
So, it is my hope to pinpoint some loads that minimize the sound exposure, in the event that i use this load hunting or in defense against 2 or 4 legged predator. I also want to maximize the effectiveness of this load.
Im planning to use a bruel & kjaer meter like the one shown in the video link. I have a few ideas up my sleeve involving 357 magnum 6" revolver and 45-70 handi rifle. I dont expect the revolver to do that well because of all the good reasons already stated. Obviously neither one will be full power...far from it
I have damaged my hearing big time over the years. I now guard what I have left by wearing ear plugs that do a good job of noise reduction. I also use Walker Game Ears when I think to get batteries for them. They have the added benefit of amplification which can work in your favor many times. I would not recommend going shooting or hunting without adequate hearing protection because of what I and all those who try to communicate with me put with daily. NOT WORTH IT to damage your hearing.
Mark 5:34 And He said to her (Jesus speaking), "Daughter, your faith has made you well. Go in peace and be healed of your affliction."
You might find this helpful
http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/preve.../ear_prot.html
I would probably skip the 357 and concentrate on the 45-70 handi rifle. As I recall the twist is 1:20 (you'll need to confirm), so at 1000 fps it should stabilize 1.4 in long projectile - and depending upon design that could be 500+ grains. You'll want either a large hollow point or blunt nose to transmit maximum energy to whatever target it hits.
je suis charlie
It is better to live one day as a LION than a dozen days as a Sheep.
Thomas Jefferson Quotations:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Iron head....
I would love to "hear" about these... Do you have some experience with earplugs of this type??? It sure would be nice to get something like this if I knew who made something that really worked well.... I use muffs now, but would love something small and not so cumbersome...
Feedback link
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My wife has found that starting the conversation with "GUN" usually gets my full attention !
I have been a Auto Tech most of my life , and 4 years on the line at VW Westmorland assembly plant. and as a active shooter for 40+ years usually shooting two to three day a week.
Last edited by bobthenailer; 07-14-2014 at 08:35 AM.
Don't bet on the VA helping a vet get hearing aids, I've been trying for a long time (aircraft mechanic) & they won't help me.
Dick
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