Hi guys can someone please let me know what fillers are safe in bottle neck cases?
Puff-lon?
Cream of wheat?
Sawdust?
(Is it true that organic solids all form hard plugs from time to time "bad in bottle neck cases").
Kapok?
Dacron?
Toilet paper?
Cotton wool?
BPI Original buffer?
I have not previously used any but am considering!
Last edited by andym79; 07-09-2014 at 04:03 AM.
Originally Posted by andym79
more powder
ars longa, vita brevis
'More of a slower powder', but what if that's still not enough?
Yes that was a bit of a flippant answer however that is what I do. If I need so much powder to reduce position sensitivity that velocity is too high, then I swap powders to a faster, less position sensitive one. Or I use a harder bullet that will tolerate the velocity. Or come to realisation that some large volume cases are just not great for cast bullets.
Other people have a lot of success with inert fillers, dacron being most common. I don't know enough about it so avoid fillers. Larry Gibson has a very good sticky on the subject:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...use-of-fillers
ars longa, vita brevis
What you want to know is entirely dependent on what you are doing. It does make a difference what you use with different load intensities with different weight boolits in different cartridges. One size doesn't fit all......................
stay away from the cereals and organics, they do suck moisture out of the air and go hard.
there is a difference between a buffer and a filler too.
sometimes you need one or the other and sometimes you need/want both..
I've used Dacron / polyester filler and it works well however I've only used dacron with extruded powders so I can't say as to other rifle powders with this filler.
Could not agree more with what you are saying there 45 2.1.
The below are some loads I have used, some I plan on using and some hypothetical loads. What sort of filler would you deem to be suitable with these loads?
30-30 H4227(AR2207) 15 grains 170gn projectile
30-30 H4198(AR2207) 17 grains 170gn projectile
38-40 H4227(AR2205) 17 grains 175gn projectile
375W H4227(AR2205) 19 grains 250gn projectile
375W H4198(AR2207) 22 grains 250gn projectile
6.5X55 H4198(AR2207) 18 grains 140gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4895(AR2206H) 23 grains 140gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4895(AR2206H) 28 grains 132gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4895(AR2206H) 29 grains 156gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4350(AR2209) 33 grains 132gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4350(AR2209) 35 grains 156gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4831(AR2213) 36 grains 132gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4831(AR2213) 37 grains 156gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H1000(AR2217) 42 grains 132gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H1000(AR2217) 42 grains 156gn GC projectile
Last edited by andym79; 07-10-2014 at 05:55 AM.
I most use and recommend the Dacron filler because it is easy to use, convenient and it most often works very well. I have extensively used the polly buffer fillers and find they work also but haven't had any work better than the Dacron filler. I suggest a reading of the sticky on filler use and my post #4 where I say why I use the filler, when I use the filler and how I use the filler. There are variances, especially when to use and when not to use.
Also let us not confuse the filler with the wad (I do not recommend the use of any material as a wad).
Larry Gibson
Could not agree more with what you are saying there 45 2.1.
The below are some loads I have used, some I plan on using and some hypothetical loads. What sort of filler would you deem to be suitable with these loads?
30-30 H4227(AR2207) 15 grains 170gn projectile
30-30 H4198(AR2207) 17 grains 170gn projectile
I wouldn't use anything in the 30-30. You list two different powders with the same AR# also. The 30-30 gets Unique or SR4759 from me.
38-40 H4227(AR2205) 17 grains 175gn projectile
I wouldn't use anything in the 38-40, it's not necessary.
375W H4227(AR2205) 19 grains 250gn projectile
375W H4198(AR2207) 22 grains 250gn projectile
I use Rl 7 or 4198 in this cartridge with no filler due to small powder capacity.
6.5X55 H4198(AR2207) 18 grains 140gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4895(AR2206H) 23 grains 140gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4895(AR2206H) 28 grains 132gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4895(AR2206H) 29 grains 156gn GC projectile
I use neither powder here.... and won't. I run the Swede at HV most of the time. My one concession is an 1,800 fps load with 2400 with no filler.
6.5X55 H4350(AR2209) 33 grains 132gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4350(AR2209) 35 grains 156gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4831(AR2213) 36 grains 132gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H4831(AR2213) 37 grains 156gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H1000(AR2217) 42 grains 132gn GC projectile
6.5X55 H1000(AR2217) 42 grains 156gn GC projectile
The three powders listed above could benefit from BP original buffer dependent on load density. My own use with this cartridge is a long out of production surplus 20mm powder with BP org. buffer.
andym79
(I can appreciate the "m79" if it refers the M79)
Would you like a 2nd opinion to your question to 45 2.1?
Larry Gibson
No questions were stated by me............. If you thought so, you were mistaken.
M79? Ha, ha! I can relate to that. Always like it much better than the M203.
I'm also a user of Dacron filler in some applications, particularly larger cases with slower powders in the IMR 3031 and 4895 class. I highly recommend Larry's aforementioned article for a well articulated answer to the OP's question.
I might add that when I tried COW filler, I started getting case separations at the web of 45/70 cases so I quit using it most ricky tick. I think that somehow the COW was sticking to the case walls and actually pulling the brass forward, even at cast boolit pressures. Dacron has never done that.
Keep your powder dry,
Scharf
Funny, I thought Larry was offering an additional opinion to the OPs question.
You are correct. You asked no question.
Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.
He probably did.... but the written word is an imperfect medium to express one's self most of the time.
Shows how well you read what I post; note my post was addressed to andym79 and I said to him "Would you like a 2nd opinion to your question to 45 2.1". Nothing in that post addressed any question made or not by you.
The OP asked you a question, you answered it. I asked the OP if he wanted another answer to the question he asked you. Couldn't have been any plainer stated. No wonder you seem confused about matters, you fail to correctly read and comprehend. Perhaps the obvious? You would rather argue........
Larry Gibson
really guy's...
andy:
I use the target to indicate if a filler is needed.
if I am getting some vertical stringing, I then add a filler.
if you do add a filler [Dacron] make sure it is lofted up and is seated on the powder, make sure it is compressed slightly by seating the boolit on top of it.
remember it makes the case think it is smaller and adding a filler will act like adding more powder.
don't pack/cram it in the case, and don't make a wad of it and shove it down on top of the powder.
about a 3/4" square [2 cm? shrug] is generally enough to fill a 308 or x57 case @ 50% or so.
I'll rent the hall, the ring, and the gloves. We could promote it here! Two men enter the square circle!
Sunday, Sunday, Sunday!!!!!!!!! One night only!!!!!! 45 2.1 VS. Larry Gibson!
You two need a sit down with the peace pipe brothers.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 1:7
Better yet, I could start handing out infractions every time this happens.
Larry, that was unnecessary.
Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.
42 grns of 2217 is too much,40 gives 2050fps,2213 should start at 35grn,none of those loads need filler,I've used them all. Pat
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