Safe fillers in bottle neck cases?

[PAT303]

Shows how well you read what I post; note my post was addressed to andym79 and I said to him "Would you like a 2nd opinion to your question to 45 2.1". Nothing in that post addressed any question made or not by you.

The OP asked you a question, you answered it. I asked the OP if he wanted another answer to the question he asked you. Couldn't have been any plainer stated. No wonder you seem confused about matters, you fail to correctly read and comprehend. Perhaps the obvious? You would rather argue........

Larry Gibson

Can we have one thread without this childish BS please. Pat

[PAT303]

I shoot 3P and field rifle so need accuracy over speed,I also don't want heat,my rifle shoots inside the xring at 50m with 10-11- 12grns of trail boss,inside the xring at 100 using 18-19-20grns of 2205 and not as good at 200 using 35grns of 2213.I have the original shot buffer and will use it to get my 200m groups smaller.Last weekend 40-41-42grns of 2217 gave no pressure but not much accuracy either,21-22-23grns of 2207 shot very well but didn't group any better than 2205 at 100,2206H shot excellent at 100,all loads used CBE 150grn or NOE 269145. Pat

[andym79]

42 grns of 2217 is too much,40 gives 2050fps,2213 should start at 35grn,none of those loads need filler,I've used them all. Pat

Thats nice to know, I would rather try loads without a filler and consider adding it if the groups are bad!

The thought of anything else in the case makes me nervous. I know millions of rounds around the world must be fired with fillers each year, but to me it would be completely new.

On a slightly different note, with powders such as AR2209, AR2213 and AR2217, and fill % as low as (assuming slightly lower loads than those stated above being tested) 62%, 79% and 83% respectively; without filler am I possibly chasing a SEE or would that only be likely with jacketed projectiles?

[andym79]

I shoot 3P and field rifle so need accuracy over speed,I also don't want heat,my rifle shoots inside the xring at 50m with 10-11- 12grns of trail boss,inside the xring at 100 using 18-19-20grns of 2205 and not as good at 200 using 35grns of 2213.I have the original shot buffer and will use it to get my 200m groups smaller.Last weekend 40-41-42grns of 2217 gave no pressure but not much accuracy either,21-22-23grns of 2207 shot very well but didn't group any better than 2205 at 100,2206H shot excellent at 100,all loads used CBE 150grn or NOE 269145. Pat

I find AR2205 to be one of the best powders for medium velocity and cast!

Whats was your AR2206H load (27 grains?) and did you use filler?

I feel more comfortable with this powder than slower ones!

[jonp]

really guy's...

andy:
I use the target to indicate if a filler is needed.
if I am getting some vertical stringing, I then add a filler.
if you do add a filler [Dacron] make sure it is lofted up and is seated on the powder, make sure it is compressed slightly by seating the boolit on top of it.
remember it makes the case think it is smaller and adding a filler will act like adding more powder.
don't pack/cram it in the case, and don't make a wad of it and shove it down on top of the powder.
about a 3/4" square [2 cm? shrug] is generally enough to fill a 308 or x57 case @ 50% or so.

Why would lack of a filler cause vertical stringing?

[btroj]

Position sensitivity. This leads to changes in pressure curve, barrel time, and velocity amongst other things.

some powders are far more sensitive to this than others.

[PAT303]

Thats nice to know, I would rather try loads without a filler and consider adding it if the groups are bad!

The thought of anything else in the case makes me nervous. I know millions of rounds around the world must be fired with fillers each year, but to me it would be completely new.

On a slightly different note, with powders such as AR2209, AR2213 and AR2217, and fill % as low as (assuming slightly lower loads than those stated above being tested) 62%, 79% and 83% respectively; without filler am I possibly chasing a SEE or would that only be likely with jacketed projectiles?

I've fired thousands of these loads and never had an issue,I personally feel that our powder is not only temperature stable but is also not position sensitive,the best powder in the world. Pat

[PAT303]

I find AR2205 to be one of the best powders for medium velocity and cast!

Whats was your AR2206H load (27 grains?) and did you use filler?

I feel more comfortable with this powder than slower ones!

Thats a good place to start,don't forget 2207,I've shot more of it than all the others combined but not in the 6.5,it's foolish to not use it and I will be working up loads with it,my next powder will be 8202.I've shot tens of thousands of 303's,it works with filler and 2207,again I've never had the clumping in the neck or drama's but the 6.5 is a different animal,get some original buffer from Shooters wholesale in Canberra. Pat

[35remington]

Ahem. Yep, 303, it's position sensitive, even the made in Australia stuff. Tested specifically for it, and the velocity variation shows up, even in a little 25-20 case with Australian made IMR (really, it's H) 4227. H4895, etc. are position sensitive as well, with up to 200 fps variations, for instance, with cast bullet loads in a 7-30 Waters using ~130 grain cast bullets.

[Bullshop]

One I did not see mentioned is Styrofoam packing popcorn and is what I use. In bottle neck cases I cut them with an exacto knife into pieces and insert enough to fill up to the case mouth so the seated boolit will compress it somewhat.
Its nearly weightless and wont change position or collapse in the case from rough handling of the ammo as when carried loose in a pocket on an all day walk about. Its also free which is very appealing to me. Free yes but not second rate in performance. My $.02

[swheeler]

I've fired thousands of these loads and never had an issue,I personally feel that our powder is not only temperature stable but is also not position sensitive,the best powder in the world. Pat

Load 2213 down to 60% density without some sort of filler and tell me how that works out for you;( It's alright to be proud of your country and what they manufacture, but statements like this into the wrong hands can be dangerous. just saying

[runfiverun]

well adi powders are hodgdons powders,,, just after a little boat ride is all.
same stuff different name.

[swheeler]

well adi powders are hodgdons powders,,, just after a little boat ride is all.
same stuff different name.

I'll will rephrase for the yanks here

Load 2213 down to 60% density without some sort of filler and tell me how that works out for you;( It's alright to be proud of your country and what they manufacture, but statements like this into the wrong hands can be dangerous. just saying Aussie version

Load H4831 down to 60% density without some sort of filler and tell me how that works out for you;( It's alright to be proud of your country and what they manufacture, but statements like this into the wrong hands can be dangerous. just saying Yank version

[PAT303]

Load 2213 down to 60% density without some sort of filler and tell me how that works out for you;( It's alright to be proud of your country and what they manufacture, but statements like this into the wrong hands can be dangerous. just saying

Already have mate,I've also done some testing,AR2213 is what I use,if people want to mix AR2213 up with what ever 4831 variant you guys have thats their problem. Pat

[Stephen Cohen]

Well have to say I found AR 2207 position sensitive in my 458 wm, I was duplicating a 45/90 load and only half the powder actually burned and ended with a bullet stuck in barrel. Since it was a new can of powder and new shells I cant see what else it could have been.

[PAT303]

Your having other problems there,load 2205 in the 32/20 or 310 cadet and you get half the powder not burning,thats nothing to do with what position it's in because the listed load fills the case. Pat

[swheeler]

Already have mate,I've also done some testing,AR2213 is what I use,if people want to mix AR2213 up with what ever 4831 variant you guys have thats their problem. Pat

Pat as far as I know, or guess I should say thought I knew, ADI powder line is repackaged by Hodgdon under their numbers but same powder, could be wrong it's happened before.

[brstevns]

Please! stop the fighting! We have lost enough good members because of misunderstandings.

[swheeler]

What fighting??????????????????????

[btroj]

Can we fight about whether or not we are fighting?

This isn't even close to a fight. This is a discussion about what Aussie made powders are available here and the differences in what we call them as opposed to what they call them.