New Powder, or No Data

[Ironduke]

Here's me talking, but if I were in the smokeless powder business I wouldn't put a new powder on the market unless I had a good selection of data published to support it. I know a company can't test every possible cartridge that could work with a given powder. And I know the dream is to put the powder out there ASAP so you can maximize profit.

Still, it's dang annoying to have a new can of powder that will for sure work with your cartridge, but the company doesn't support you with data. Like this new can of Aliant MP-300 powder. They list maybe 8 cartridges on their website down to 22 hornet, and up to 500 S&W. I KNOW this powder will work fine in the 50 AE, but no data. Similarly, Aliant AR Comp is short on data. Come on ATK. Get some data out there to support your products!

[xacex]

Here's me talking, but if I were in the smokeless powder business I wouldn't put a new powder on the market unless I had a good selection of data published to support it. I know a company can't test every possible cartridge that could work with a given powder. And I know the dream is to put the powder out there ASAP so you can maximize profit.

Still, it's dang annoying to have a new can of powder that will for sure work with your cartridge, but the company doesn't support you with data. Like this new can of Aliant MP-300 powder. They list maybe 8 cartridges on their website down to 22 hornet, and up to 500 S&W. I KNOW this powder will work fine in the 50 AE, but no data. Similarly, Aliant AR Comp is short on data. Come on ATK. Get some data out there to support your products!

I have a can of that stuff too that I want to try out with the blackout. There is a spattering of info across the internet, but nothing published that I know of. I am collecting all the information I can on it before I begin working up a load. With everything else going on here it might be a year before I load the first round with it. I would like to see 50 Beowulf listed as well.

[jonp]

Seems to me that with the burn rate established and a little time you can figure out this for yourself?

[Artful]

Burn rate appears to be between 2400 and 4227 - just use those as guides.
starting load of 2400 work up ...

[Ironduke]

MP-300 shows good velocity with the 500 S&W, 454 Cas., and 44 mag. I think it would be just fine in the 50 AE, and also the Beowulf. I am a bit concerned with port pressure in gas guns like the Desert Eagle and AR. This is the reason I have not already cranked out some test loads.

[JohnH]

I say this knowing that I am to some degree talking through my hat, but it strikes me that any data generated by a powder manufacturer is going to be developed in pressure barrels and the data generated will likely not be discerning of what port pressures may or may not be. I do believe that port pressure issues are why Sierra shows separate data for bolt rifles and AR's. Have you tried calling the maker?

[xacex]

I say this knowing that I am to some degree talking through my hat, but it strikes me that any data generated by a powder manufacturer is going to be developed in pressure barrels and the data generated will likely not be discerning of what port pressures may or may not be. I do believe that port pressure issues are why Sierra shows separate data for bolt rifles and AR's. Have you tried calling the maker?

Not yet, but when I get to it if nothing has been published I will give them a ring. Not to much in a hurry. I have other projects right now. Looks like something between 34 to 37 grains for a 335 grain boolit should work for the beowulf. Haven't even looked for data with the blackout.

[texassako]

It is kind of a pain when you think a powder will work in an application and there is no data, and this powder has been out for quite a while now(it is in the 2010 guide) and could have more data. On the flip side, they have data for the specific market they targeted with it, the magnum handgun rounds. I skipped buying some because of the lack of data in more cartridges.

[MGySgt]

I have been working with PP 300 MP for a few weeks now. Looking at loads from Aliant for the 44mag and H110 from Hodgen I THOUGHT the 300 MP was brought out to compete with H110. I tried 1 grain under the starting loads for H110 in my 300 BO. WRONG - it is much faster than H110. While the first load I tried the average velocity for a 165 gr SPBT was 1743, the ES was 21 and the SD was 8 – the accuracy at 100 yards was 2.5 inch plus.
It appears as if Artful is correct that the loads will fall in with 2400/4227.
I have some more test loads that I plan on shooting tomorrow. Same bullet Hornady 165gr SPBT.
I have a few other J word’s to try yet (110-125grain).
I haven’t gotten around to trying my RCBS 165gr Sil yet, but that shoots great with 2400 – but it will not function the action in a 300BO AR with a carbine length gas system, works fine in a pistol length gas system.
No I will not post my loads – YET. I need to finish the work up and chrono them.

[RobS]

Damn I too thought Alliant 300 MP was slower than H110 by about 1 grain of powder .........well at least in straight wall handgun cartridges.

[AlaskanGuy]

I would be thinking 2400ish as well... I am not too brave without published data, but I might be tempted by low end tables of 2400 loads to start...

[MGySgt]

The real question here is why is Alliant bring out PP 300 MP to compete with their other magnum pistol powder - 2400?????

[John Boy]

Called Alliant - told it's burn rate is 'around' H110 at 117 and I've gathered elsewhere, the Alliant 300-MP was made to compete with the H110. Looked in Propellant Powder, Fifth Edition that H110 needs a magnum primer
Have shot the 300-MP in a 8.15x46R Schuetzen rifle - diopter & globe - 175gr bullet - 12.5gr 300-MP - 5 shot group @ 100yds (0.192x0.142) with a Federal GM215M primer
A To-Do ... work the charge up to 14gr at 200yds

[C. Latch]

If I found a can of 300, I'd buy it, for use in .45 Colt, but I wouldn't expect Ruger-only data from Alliant. They don't even show such data for 2400, IIRC.

[MGySgt]

John Boy - only thing I know for sure is that if I use the starting load for H110 in a 300 BO the accuracy sure isn't there at 100 yards. I have dropped 1.5-20 grains off the starting load for H110 and the accuracy is starting to come in. It is around the same charge weight as I use with 2400 in a pistol length AR.
Even if it duplicates the 2400 load it is still a viable powder for the 300B with a carbine length gas system where as mentioned before 2400 will not cycle the 300BO in a carbine length gas system (I have 2 uppers in 300, 1 with the carbine length and 1 with the pistol length).

Another reason to try PP 300 MP is that it is available local where as 2400 can not be found.

[MGySgt]

One more thing - 1680 can't be had either!

[Flinchrock]

If I found a can of 300, I'd buy it, for use in .45 Colt, but I wouldn't expect Ruger-only data from Alliant. They don't even show such data for 2400, IIRC.

This is exactly what I have in mind, for rifle and pistol, where do you think you would start with 255-285gr lead boolits??

[leadman]

I am using 2400 data as a starting point and it is working well in my 41mag and in several 30 and 31 cal. rifles with cast. My observation is it is slightly slower than 296/110 in the 41 mag. RSBH Hunter 24 gr gives me over 1,550 fps with the RCBS SWC plain base. This is a top load.
Around 17 to 18gr to start with a 180 to 200 gr boolit in the 30-06, 7.62X54r, and the 7.7X58 Arisaka.
This powder has a very loud boom, unlike LilGun which is higher pitched bang.

[C. Latch]

This is exactly what I have in mind, for rifle and pistol, where do you think you would start with 255-285gr lead boolits??

To be perfectly honest, I do not know. I would probably find .44 magnum data for a similar bullet, be sure my OAL was as long or longer than the .44 data showed, and watch carefully for pressure signs but otherwise be comfortable using .44 Mag data, as it will produce similar speeds but lower pressures in the .45.....and I probably wouldn't go to the top of that data, anyway. I'm hoping to hunt with a 270-grain slug at no more than 1300 this fall, maybe much less.

Of course, that's moot, as I didn't buy the can of 300 I saw on a shelf 3-4 months ago.