Investing in precious metals. Lead... huh?

[Animal]

Folks, I tend to think a lot about what works without the power grid and what doesn't. I try to be prepared for any possible problem that would threaten the welfare of my family. I started to think about this stuff more and more after a severe storm fried our electric water well one year. It was a humbling experience to not be able to get water out of our water faucets. When I lived in the city, this never happened. A power outage would just inconvenience our lives for a short time, but this was the first time my home had been without water. So, I learned from that experience and took necessary steps for a short-term outrage, and I am planing a permanent solution, a hand crank water well, hopefully next year.

I hear about folks investing in silver and gold. Perhaps I'm not educated enough in these matters, but I'm not sure how these metals can comfort my family in the event of a worst-case scenario. It seems like a useless item to invest in when no one can eat it, drink it, melt it over a camp fire or burn it to stay warm. However, I can do many things with lead and zinc over a hot camp fire. I can make bullets, make-shift blades and probably a few other things I haven't thought of.

I guess I'm curious as to what the consensus is among seasoned casters and investment savvy folks. How important is it for you to have silver and gold in a SHTF situation vs. wheel weights and other lead forms?

[USAFrox]

Personally, I've not seen the utility in investing in gold. Yes, it supposedly is a reservoir of value that will always be "valuable", but in a real WTSHTF scenario, if everyone is worried about having food to eat, water to drink, and safety - I can't think of ANYONE who will trade anything of survival value for some gold. I sure wouldn't. Would you?

[62chevy]

Gold is just one form of barter out of hundreds of things to trade with. I think gold flake is a better form than ingots of gold.

[DeanWinchester]

Gold and silver investments are only sound if you know the 'system' will recover. They will let you lock in you money's worth because gold never really changes in value. Several bars of gold would buy you a nice home a thousand years ago. Several bars will STILL buy you a nice home. Money fluctuates making the perceived value of gold change.

As as far as I am concerned gold is worthless. Sure, I'd love to have a hundred pounds of it right now but be serious. You can't go spend it. You have to exchange it for money. When TSHTF it will still be worthless to anyone but a fool. You can't eat it. You can't make much out of it without supporting industry. Jewelry is worthless.
Put your investments in things that will not lose value in a healthy market and will also have value in a total collapse. Factory ammo for one. You can't sell reloads in a healthy economy so reloads will only be of value after the system collapses. Ammo prices are NEVER going to go down much of any.
High quality tools. Not wenches and hammers necessarily but tools you can use to MAKE things you need.
Alcohol will always be worth something. Scotch only gets better with age. Lol! My favorite is Pure Grain Alcohol. I buy a little here and there. Store it in a cool dry place and it will never go bad. You can drink it. Make home remedies. It's a strong antiseptic. On a whim, I once ran a 5 hp Briggs engine on it.


If we're talking hypothetically here and the zombie apocalypse has happened; You come to me needing something I have and you want to trade me gold? You're gonna leave very disappointed.

[joesig]

Those who poo-poo precious metals haven't done honest research about them. You can't eat dollar bills either. Someday you will be able to wipe your butt with them though. Check the REAL value of an ounce of gold from the 1700s to current time and then read up on the Continental. Pretty interesting, huh?

Precious metals are preservation of what wealth you do have. If you don't have much, I agree that is not the place to begin investing.

What's a worse case scenario? EMP taking out the US? Are you going to stay because you want to or because you have to? How are you going to bribe a guard on the Canadian border to get across? ("Hey man, here's a ton of lead for you." or "Here's a couple of Maple Leafs.")

Go to Kitco and check out the charts. Go play with inflation calculators (the REAL S is hitting the fan right NOW). Even with the BS inflation numbers it's plain to see. If EVERYTHING is going up it is code for the dollar is going DOWN! Check out coinflation.com and see what gasoline cost in 1964 and now and ditto for a 1964 quarter.

If you REALLY want to invest in something then invest in TOOLS and SKILLS. They will not depreciate. If you are bugging in then at least you can repair what you own and maybe someone else's stuff. Plant your own food, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I think that stocking up on metal is good. ALL metal. If you need steel, zinc isn't going to cut it. Aluminum won't do some things you can do with brass. etc.


Seriously do some good research on history. Educate yourself and then draw your own conclusions.

[DeanWinchester]

Joesig,

I couldn't agree more! I've been telling folks for a while, "There is NO skill a man ought not at least be familiar with". Fast coming is the day when a man that cannot use the two tools God attached to your wrists will starve and die. The wife laughed at me a little while back because I sat down and learned to crochet. Not very good at it, but I can make simple articles of clothing that certainly beats going naked. In a house with two other grown women, I'm the only one who can use a sewing machine. I'm not good at it but I won't be walking around with my tools hangin' out my tool box.

You ain't gotta be a full time farmer to learn to make things grow.
If you plan to use it in hard times but you don't know how it works, you're a fool destined for failure.

[John Boy]

Diamonds!
Advertise in Senior Citizen Communities - "I buy USED Diamonds"

[DeanWinchester]

Diamonds are no different than gold. They only have value in a stable economy. When men need bread, they ain't gonna trade for rocks.

[merlin101]

Diamonds are no different than gold. They only have value in a stable economy. When men need bread, they ain't gonna trade for rocks.

Not always true, there will always be men that will sell anything and everything for gold even there children! I'm not saying that gold (or silver) is the best investment. I am saying that it may be a real good idea to have a little gold and silver tucked away. Both will always have value if for nothing else to use for barter

[DeanWinchester]

Not always true, there will always be men that will sell anything and everything for gold even there children! I'm not saying that gold (or silver) is the best investment. I am saying that it may be a real good idea to have a little gold and silver tucked away. Both will always have value if for nothing else to use for barter

While I'm sure you're right, there will always be SOME men suffering goldlust, come down here to the south after the poop hits the fan and see what has more value: A lump of gold or a dutch oven full of deer chili an a pone of cornbread.
Shucks! Come to think of it, I'd rather have the home cooked grub right NOW! LOL!!!

[ghh3rd]

I've got a can of Gold Rustoleum paint all ready for my lead ingots should the day come.

[osteodoc08]

Precious metals are valuable after the SHTF has ended and there is still no "economy" per se, but rather a barter system. I feel it necessary to learn how to become self reliant. We may never have to use it, but you just never know.

I think in my lifetime, the worst I will see is economy collapse (like what has been going on in Europe for years) and interclass warfare when the working class gets sick and tired of paying for the folks that feel theyre entitled.

I'm stocked up on canned goods, learning to grow my own food, canning, making cured meats and making sure I am prepared for power outages, water and protection. I have enough hand tools to take care of a small farm including frequently broke items. Gasoline/Diesel will always be commodities, but harder to store now.

I hope I never have to take care of my family like that, but would be prepared the best I could. I would love to have at least some acreage with farm animals as that would be the most valuable. More valuable than any gold or silver.

The foxfire book series is kinda cool as it covers many of the self reliant methods of doing the above.

[Hammerlane]

I say invest in LEAD as I have plenty of Isotope Lead Cores for sale on the Swappin & Sellin forum.

[Animal]

Wow, great responses folks. It seems that most of you share my own thoughts on precious metals. It seems like every time I turn around, some ****** is trying to convince me that I need to invest in gold or silver if I want to survive an economic collapse. They always fail to explain how it is going to help when the economy officially capsizes and the grid goes down.

I told my wife a couple of years ago that I felt the only full-proof way to have a retirement is to plan to live off the grid... bugging in. I'm slowly but surely taking steps in that direction. Bullet casting is just a part of the journey.

Thanks folks, I've really enjoyed all of your post.

[bannor]

I don't see any point in investing lead, either (for shtf) 10% of the population will be dead within a month of the power going out. So there will be tons and tons of ammo (and guns) to be picked up. 90-99% will be dead within a year. there will be diesel generators, clothing, housing, vehicles, 18 wheelers full of fuel, stuff everywhere, just waiting to be picked up. There will be no time for (no need of) casting or reloading ammo. All the livestock will be dead within 2 weeks, all the game within 2 months. So what will you be shooting at, hmm? You won't be practicing, cause the noise will "call in" your killers. Possible exception of silenced subsonic .22lr or pellet gun practice, or maybe airsoft(with a spring powered model).

[bannor]

UNTIL shtf, tho, lead and gold are great stores of value, but you have to be very careful what you pay. If you can't "mine" the dirt berms for your lead, it's pretty expensive stuff. You have to be very careful when (and from who) you buy (and sell to) your gold, too, or you'll lose your butt on it. A few hundred $ worth of metal drums (buried) full of legumes/grain/salt/molasses (or honey) is by far the best place to put a bit of money (for shtf, that is). along with some fish antibiotics and similar low cost, hi-need meds.

[dikman]

If anyone is really paranoid about the Great Apocalypse coming, then as has been said tools and the associated skills that go with them would be where the real value lies. If I might make a suggestion for those people, learn some basic blacksmithing skills. The ability to work hot steel, and make use of scrap steel (which is everywhere) would be worth it's weight in gold - so to speak .

[bangerjim]

I have always invested significantly in the metals market. You should have at least 15% of your wealth in gold, sliver, platinum. Those metals have had and will always will have international desire and will maintain an international value, even in your SHTF senerarios! The people that survive will not do it on a stash of lead only.

If you don't like gold, you have never owned it and probably cannot afford it anyway. It is beautiful to touch and hold.

Not bullion! Pre-1934 American coins that are non-confiscatable. A future government could/will confiscate all bullion because when you buy/sell it, the sale is registered when it trades. Old coins are personal property and there is not record of the sale. $20 UNC St. Gaudens gold coins are the best! Avoid the new 1oz American Eagle and Buffalo bullion coins. Bullion not in coin form needs to be assayed when traded, so can be potentially difficult to trade.

Silver is much cheaper on the spot market and is something pretty much anyone can buy and hold. A good source is SILVER half dollars (pre 1974). And those are still worth fifty cents if you need to spend them! But are worth much more for the silver in them. Liberty, Franklin, and early Kennedy coins are readily available to purchase as a purely silver bulk purchase. Market mavens predict silver could out-gain gold (% increase) in the future.

Do what you must. You cannot buy food with bullets. Mabe you plan to steal it? And alcohol is too volatile a commodity. Best plan is to have plenty of all "hedges on disasters" squirreled away for a future incident. I do.

If you really want to invest in survivalist stuff, think about these: large water storage containers, solar panels with rechargeable batteries, power inverters, LED lighting, water purification chemicals, lots of canned meats and veggies, toilet paper (!!). I have! Forget generators....there will be no fuel.

bangerjim

[dtknowles]

......Not bullion! Pre-1934 American coins that are non-confiscatable. A future government could/will confiscate all bullion because when you buy/sell it, the sale is registered when it trades. Old coins are personal property and there is not record of the sale. $20 UNC St. Gaudens gold coins are the best! Avoid the new 1oz American Eagle and Buffalo bullion coins. Bullion not in coin form needs to be assayed when traded, so can be potentially difficult to trade.

Silver is much cheaper on the spot market and is something pretty much anyone can buy and hold. A good source is SILVER half dollars (pre 1974). And those are still worth fifty cents if you need to spend them! But are worth much more for the silver in them. Liberty, Franklin, and early Kennedy coins are readily available to purchase as a purely silver bulk purchase. Market mavens predict silver could out-gain gold (% increase) in the future.

Do what you must. You cannot buy food with bullets. Mabe you plan to steal it? And alcohol is too volatile a commodity. Best plan is to have plenty of all "hedges on disasters" squirreled away for a future incident. I do.

If you really want to invest in survivalist stuff, think about these: large water storage containers, solar panels with rechargeable batteries, power inverters, LED lighting, water purification chemicals, lots of canned meats and veggies, toilet paper (!!). I have! Forget generators....there will be no fuel.

bangerjim

I prefer tenth ounce gold and one ounce silver eagles. How come you say to avoid them? My purchases have not been recorded, I have got them from a few different places and nobody requires personal info.

Why do you think that there will be no fuel, maybe I expect that some of us will remain who could make fuel even after the existing stocks are used up and I would expect that that knowledge would be part of the reason some of us will survive longer than others even if it is just to make fuel for the people who run the show.

When you say that alcohol is to volatile do you mean to attractive and makes you a target as its low vapor pressure should not be a problem.

Are you saying you can get old coins for only a small premium over spot prices?

Suger, flour, beans, rice, I think it is too soon to be gathering too much of that as it has a shelf life and SHTF is not that close, just 6 months of that stuff is enough and use it and rotate the stock.

Around here a large water container would seem silly but water purification equipment would be a good thing to have. I have a couple hundred gallons of water storage but that is just for convenience during hurricanes.

Tim

[smokeywolf]

Financial investing and prepping have startling similarities. Inflation is just going crazy right now. Dairy products have gone up about 20% in the last 6 to 8 months; buy canned and powdered milk, powdered eggs. If you have land, and it's practical and feasible, get a cow or cattle. Beef prices have also gone up at a sickening pace.
Pork has gone up 20 to 40% in the same period of time. If you have the acreage and resources raise them yourself or look to a neighbor with pigs and buy from him/her instead of a supermarket. Chances are you'll get more for your money or at least the same amount but much better quality.

Long story short, you may not be able to procure some or any of your needs at the market in the future; maybe even the near future. If you can swing it, raise your own food.

I've been trying to find ways to reinvest my assets that will make or keep them valuable in a collapse; societal or economic. As people are notorious for buying things they want almost as often as they buy things they need, it would be foolish to completely ignore precious metals. However, if you're dealing with another rational individual, here are some of the things that will be of value to others no matter what happens...

HYGIENE
Toilet Paper - Ten years worth is our goal.
Soap and/or components for making your own body soap, shampoo, toothpaste, dish washing liquid
Mineral Salt Deodorant Stone/Stick (Ammonium Alum)

CLEANING AGENTS/DISINFECTANTS
Alcohol
Bleach (remember, liquid bleach will only store for about 2 years before breaking down and losing potency) Granulated chlorine for swimming pools (Calcium Hypochlorite) stores indefinitely.
Hydrogen Peroxide
Borax

CLOTH
For making diapers, rags, bandages, bandanas, patching clothing, too much to list.
Addendum to "cloth": we've stocked up on cloth diapers and lady's washable-reusable feminine products.

FOOD
Unground wheat stores longer that ground wheat; get a wheat mill that is hand cranked but with bracket/adapter for powered option.
Rice stored properly can be good for 20 years or more.
Salt (Our goal is at least 500 lb. combined of iodized, canning, block)
Sugar
Raw Honey
Vinegar
Seeds (heirloom type)

BOOZE
Cheap Gin, Vodka, Whiskey Tequila for barter
Good Gin, Vodka, Whiskey Tequila for you

OTHER SUPPLIES
Wood Fired Cook Stove
Cast Iron Cookware
Pressure Canner/Cooker(s)
Canning jars plus Lids & Bands
Funnels, Strainers, Utensils
Mylar bags, O2 absorbers, food grade buckets
Writing Supplies - paper, pencils, pens, crayons
Extensive Sewing Kit
String/Twine
Candles
Oil Lamps/spare wick

MEDICAL SUPPLIES
Do your own research.

FUELS (in practical, safely storable quantities)
Propane
Diesel
Gasoline
Kerosene
Paraffin/Lamp Oil

TOOLS
I'm a tool nut. This post is already too long.
One that often shows up in old movies and most Country Folk don't forget, but City People usually overlook... an anvil. You need at least one anvil in your shop and preferably 2 or 3 of varying sizes (weights).

BUILDING SUPPLIES
In addition to the obvious, don't forget...
Electrical wire
Music wire
Large assortment of springs
Baling wire
Plumber's tape
Teflon tape
Duct tape (lots of duct tape)
An assortment of ball bearings

smokeywolf