Paul Matthews: 5744 for 45-70 PP?

[rdlange]

Just did a 30min forum search... limited result, so:

'Found' a pound of 5744 last nite, and relocated alot of my PP stuff out of storage today.

Thought I remembered this powder recommended for PP in the 'Paper jacket' as a full case loading powder? But I can't find the load data anymore, so I hope it wasn't wasted money.

Help appreciated when you got the time, while I search around here.

for 405 gr bullets in a Handi rifle.

Thanks.

[bigted]

NO !!! PLEASE dont fill the case with 5744. it is far too much of this powder under the 405 or any other boolit in a 45-70 case. the 5744 powder is a nice low power powder for creating loads that replicate the blackpowder loads in velocity and preassure and allow the old war horse to spew boolits with smokeless powder.

as for the full case bit ... there are other powders that will give the magic 100% loads. depends on which rifle and its strength. nuttin takes the place as well as the original powder tho.

just my two cents worth.

[BruceB]

bigted is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!!!

Loading a full case of 5744 can be spelled, in short, as "BOMB" (or maybe "GRENADE".

Its burning speed is close to that of 4227, or just a tad slower than 2400....another pair to strictly avoid for full-case loads.

I like 5744 and use a good bit of it. It was designed to, among other things, burn cleanly at blackpowder PRESSURES in large cases.... not at blackpowder CHARGES.

Do your research carefully; double loads of 5744 will fit in many cases, and are a recipe for disaster.

[Artful]

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf
Page 19

45-70 Government (Springfield Trap Door less than 18,000 psi)Barrel: 24" ■ Twist: 1-20" ■ Primer: WIN WLR ■ Bullet Diameter .458"

5744 405 LC FP 24.3 1,226 27.0 1,394 16,100 2.550

5744 420 CP LFNGC 25.6 1,210 28.5 1,375 16,100 2.600

5744 460 CP LFNGC 24.3 1,102 27.0 1,253 18,800 2.680

5744 500 MCB RN 23.4 1,070 26.0 1,217 16,100 2.635

5744 525 MCB SS 21.6 1,060 24.0 1,205 16,300 2.655

5744 530 LYM Postell 20.1 1,036 22.4 1,178 18,600 2.950


45-70 Government (Standard Rifles less than 28,000 psi)

Barrel: 24" ■ Twist: 1-20" ■ Primer: WIN WLR ■ Bull

et Diameter .458"

5744 300 SIE HP FN 36.7 1,712 40.8 1,874 27,200 2.550

5744 350 HDY RN 33.8 1,529 37.5 1,676 27,700 2.550

5744 400 SPR FN 29.7 1,460 33.0 1,610 27,800 2.540


Lead Bullets

5744 405 LC FP 30.6 1,468 34.0 1,600 27,800 2.550

5744 420 CP LFNGC 29.3 1,401 32.5 1,538 27,000 2.550

5744 440 CP LFNGC 28.1 1,362 31.2 1,490 27,600 2.550

5744 460 CP WFNGC 27.5 1,321 30.5 1,444 27,200 2.550

5744 500 LC FP 25.2 1,265 28.0 1,400 27,900 2.550

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-con...ec_1-23-14.pdf

[rdlange]

Thanks. I found that info also. Just trying to remember what PM recommended in his book. I have hundreds of undersize 45 bullets. I got sizers to get them right diameter, and tracing paper and practiced rolling them. Just need the right powder since I keep reading that a full case is necessary to get good PP accuracy.

and thanks for the suggestion that I try BP substitutes. Never thought of that.

[bigted]

the substitutes are ok but they are not real blackpowder. i like real BP as it cleans so easy and once clean it stays clean ... unlike some of the sub's in that they are capable of creating a possibility of rusting thru the preservative oil ... not so with real BP.

Writes book on loading OEM BP loads for the trap door springfield is helpfull for shooting greasers and there is another book that will act as a starter for shooting paperpatch ahead of BP ... just cant remember the name of either the book nor the auther.

the 5744 powder will do fine for the paperpatch loads with 1 small problem ... the boolit has no place to rest on for a repeating rifle ... singleshot rifles will have no problem tho.

give it a try with the apropriate charge and report back with your success ... and above all be safe and have a ball with this dandy old cartridge.

[Artful]

So I dug up my copy of Forty Years with the .45-70 by Paul A. Matthews and on page 90 he tells of 355 grain paper patched over 55 grains of IMR-3031 fired by Remington 9 1/2 primers in Ruger #1 or #3.

on page 120 he does tell of using H4831 surplus powder under paper patched and it did fill the case - he later tells of duplex load -
362 grain Hoch paper patched load with Duplex thus
- Next to the primer 5 grains of Unique and then 54 grains of H4831 with paper patched on top giving velocity of 1,616 fps and 31 fps extreme spread

[Nobade]

5744 works fine with PP, just use some polyester fill on top of it and proper neck tension so the boolit doesn't telescope into the case. Pretty much treat them like naked boolits. Just don't be trying to fill the case with that stuff, you'll take your rifle apart.

-Nobade

[rdlange]

"Paper Jacket" just showed up in the mail, so I'll be reading tonight. Still can't figure out where the first copy went. this one was $4.99 off amazon used. Got here in 2 days. I'll try the polyfil like with Unique under greasers. Your advise is always good. Thanks again folks.