45LC Handi rifle load

[fcvan]

I bought an H&R Classic Carbine in 45 Colt a few years back and LOVE it. I've ran loads from mild to wild, starting with .454 RB loads at 900 fps, up to shoulder bruisers with the Lee C452-300 RF. The crescent steel but plate is very efficient at transfering recoil to the shoulder with minimal loss. It shoots very well with the 452-255 RF. I liked loading for the 45 Colt rifle that I just had to find a Ruger Vaquero (old model) in 45 Colt to go with it. The rifle is my 'Long Colt' and the Ruger is my 'Short Colt.'

When loading the 255 in the 4 5/8" Vaquero to 1200 fps, I get closer to 1500 fps from the 20" carbine. I've not benched the rifle, mostly just off-hand shooting. I will have to see if changing the forend pressure effects the grouping. This thread has me wanting to hit the hills again soon just to play with those two again

[DeanWinchester]

Well, I ran into a small issue think morning while tinkering. Evidently the Colt is a bit bigger than the Casull case; Diameter wise. I could visually see what had been run through the sizer die. Now, i know very little about straight wall rifle cartridges BUT, seems to me, I could just run the brass in the sizing die just as much as I need for boolit retention. Fired brass chambers and extracts smoothly and they'll never see a different gun. Seems to me I would be better off not full length resizing these cases. About the first 1/3 is all that I need to hold the boolit in place. Seems like leaving the rest of the case alone would help hold the case centered in the chamber and keep the soot down on lower pressure loads.
I full length sized one piece and noticed it needed trimming but the couple I only sized 1/3 of did not need trimming. Unless there's something I'm missing, I'd be overworking the brass for nothing. RIGHT?

[C. Latch]

That's correct. My .45 Colt (revolver) brass almost look like bottlenecks. Once in a while one will grow at the base and be a little tight, and need to be mashed into the cylinder, and if you encounter that you'll probably find that it's hard to 'mash' things with a lever-gun, but it's rare and you can always run them through a FL sizer when that pops up.

[DeanWinchester]

Big meplat anyone??
Here's my next attempt. Accurate mold 45-340L. .454 Casull, 23.0g of Win 296. Velocity listed for a handgun is 1300 fps. I exect a bit more from the rifle barrel.

Gently kisses the rifling upon closing. Extracts easy. Should make some BIG holes.

Crummy Iphone picture

[DeanWinchester]

Curious, if I were inclined to start hitting the blackpowder on this; Couldn't I figure the perfect amount of powder to give a bit of compression and just barely size the mouth of the case. Then seat the boolit long and let it engage the rifling to set final OAL. Kinda like the paper patchers do.

[C. Latch]

Big meplat anyone??
Here's my next attempt. Accurate mold 45-340L. .454 Casull, 23.0g of Win 296. Velocity listed for a handgun is 1300 fps. I exect a bit more from the rifle barrel.

Gently kisses the rifling upon closing. Extracts easy. Should make some BIG holes.

Crummy Iphone picture

I looked at your picture and load information and couldn't help but think of the scene where Roy Bean kills Bad Bob.

Man, that load ought to leave a hole in something.

[DeanWinchester]

I'm hoping to poke one of these through a barely legal spike buck with a nice merciful bang flop. Shoulder blade shot at 50 yards should guarantee I don't have to track nuthin'! Whatcha bet it turns his lungs into tapioca.

I'm going to try a couple different loads. The 296 load and my manual lists a 325g boolit with a starting load of Unique at 11.3g. SO, I'm going to try 10.0g of Unique. 10.0g has been accurate in EVERYTHING and we all know it. I'm hoping this is no different.

[Ben]

1,400 fps. with that bullet is roughly equivalent to a light bullet 45/70. No doubt at all about the killing power of this on white tailed deer. Going to make a large exit hole.

Ben

[DeanWinchester]

That's what I was thinking. Even without pushing too hard I can get to the bottom end of standard 45/70 loads in a light and handy package.

[Snyd]

Big meplat anyone??
Here's my next attempt. Accurate mold 45-340L. .454 Casull, 23.0g of Win 296. Velocity listed for a handgun is 1300 fps. I exect a bit more from the rifle barrel.

Gently kisses the rifling upon closing. Extracts easy. Should make some BIG holes.

I've got one that looks close. 355gr wfn from a custom LBT mould. I trim 454 brass to half the length between 45 Colt and 454. This allows me to crimp in the crimp groove and have a OAL that allows it to feed reliably in the 454 levergun. Dual gun load. I call the load the 454 Snyd 23 gr LilGun. I've pushed it harder but don't see the need.

[DeanWinchester]

Man those are some clean holes! Like a paper punch.

[Ben]

It is going to make the same " clean holes " in meat ! !

[GoodOlBoy]

I know I am kinda late to the discussion on this one, but lemme throw a couple of bits out here.

#1 in my handi 45-70 if I try to shoot it off of a sandbag or rest it WON'T group. Standing strong hand it groups like nobodies business. I think it is just an H&R thing. Probably because of the way the barrel locks into the receiver. You CAN shoot one without a fore-grip on it in an emergency, but not a great idea IMHO. So I think resting pressure on the fore-grip just plays heck with them... does on mine anyway.

#2 in my experience trail boss prefers a good crimp. Just saying.

#3 Dad loaded 300 grain XTP Mags at WAYY faster than I wanted to shoot from MY shoulder. I have a buddy who loaded 45 long colts with 360 grain lead cast also loaded to MUCH faster than I wanted to shoot from My shoulder. 454 casull is a nice round, but nothing wrong with a good old fashioned 45 lc.

#4 Have never seen anything good from crimping long to contact the lands and grooves either. For me it always did nothing, or had a negative effect. Some people swear by it, if it works for you go for it.

anyway that's my.... 4 cents. Your mileage may vary.

GoodOlBoy

[Nrut]

For heavy kickers I use a "Bulls Bag"..
http://www.bullsbag.com/
Turn the bag about 45 degrees to downrange, rest your forearm (not rifles forearm) in the groove of the bag and hold the forearm of the rifle in your hand..
Once you get everything nestled down you will end up with the rifle just kissing the bag inboard from you hand..
I still use a butt bag..
Spend some time getting it set up and right using some 1by or 2X6's for getting the correct elevation..
You end up with better groups as the rifle isn't bouncing off the bag, plus you are shooting from a more natural position..

If I can arrange it I don't size my brass for my single shots..
I hand seat a tight fitting bullet, one that is sized so it sort of pops when you pull the lubed bullet out of the case..
Then I use powder with or without plastic shot buffer to control seating depth..

Glen Fryxell wrote a article on shooting heavies (330gr. to 520 gr.) out of his 10" Contender back in 96 using slower than normal powders, ei. AA1680, IMR4198 and Rl-7..
Note his overall cart. length as that plays an important role when using such a small case..
https://www.google.ca/search?q=somet...y+glen+fryxell

BTW that FN bullet looks like the cats meow..
Be sure to report how it does at 100 and if it shoots point on at that distant..

[DeanWinchester]

BOOOOYYAAAAHHHH!!!!!!

THese things shoot!!!!!!! Took me five or six to get the scope dialed in. I pulled the target sights and put a steel body Weaver K4 post on top. MUCH better.

Anywho, my trail boss load was way low, no surprise. I tried 10.0g of Unique. Brisk load but not too hot. Recoil was present but not unpleasant. Easy shooter. Grouped these at 25 yards off a rest and they shot inside 2 inches.
The 296 loads shocked the pee outta me! First five, about an inch and a half. Next five, ALL TOUCHING.
These handi rifles are well known to get all kind of stupid when the barrel gets hot. It kept grouping so I kept shooting. I shot everything I loaded with no cool down time. The 296 loads were fairly stout and the barrel heated up pretty fast. BY time i was done, it really hot. It just kept on layin' em in there!

My new precious! .454 Casull handi rifle and 23.0g of 296 under an Accurate 340g boolit.
Ohh, and NO leading. I had Ben's Red residue all over the crown and could even see it on the bench a little. BUT, no leading.
Man, i'm tickled with this. Next go 'round I'm gonna stretch it out to 50 and maybe even 100 yards.

[DeanWinchester]

Tried 24.0g this weekend. Shot just as good. I'm gonna creep up to about 26.0g slowly. That oughta put me at nigh 1700fps. Basically a low end 45/70.

[Springfield]

Haven't tried any heavy loads in my 45 Colt Handi, it is mostly for the kids to shoot. I have tried some 400 grainers in my 45-70 Buff Classic, not too bad on recoil, it's just those pointy ends of the buttplate than bothered me. So I made a simple leather cover to dull them a bit. Also tends to stick to my shoulder better. I shoulda made it inside out with the rough side out like I did on some others, but it still works. I now have a 22 Hornet Handi, and as soon as the NOE mould is done I think it will be fun for the kids to shoot. These things are addicting!

Attachment 114487

[DeanWinchester]

They ARE addictive! I started on these things and now i don't care if i ever get my AR out anymore.

[tomme boy]

If you have any 2400, don't be afraid to try it. 17-18 gr shot a 1.25-1.75" groups with my 45 colt H&R at 100 yds with a 300 gr flat base from Accurate Molds. It had a long chamber on it also. I sold it to White Eagle here on this board if you want to talk to him about it.

Some of the guys over on the Greybeard board that are doing their 45 colts into a 460 so it will handle the 454 no problem.

[DeanWinchester]

I ran up as far as 25.0g of 296 today and even scooted out to 100 yards with it. Using the same point of aim on my post reticle, I wasn't seeing much drop from 50 to 100 yards. Grouping wasn't competition grade but plenty good for putting meat on the table. Tried out my first run of Lil'gun. 22.0g under this 340g'er and a steel buttplate makes this a little bruiser. Fun, not abusive but I got a little mark on my shoulder.

With the Accurate 45-340L I can hit a clay target at 100 consistently. For this rifle's intended purpose, it's gonna be great.