45LC Handi rifle load

[DeanWinchester]

My Handi rifle Classic carbine in .45 Long Colt is looking good so far.
I did some fiddlin'. Here's what's goin' on. Using a once fired Hornady .454 Casull case, I gently pressed it in the till it bottomed out, used a depth mic and took a reading. Trimmed the case .005 more than that reading for a finished length of 1.305. That's a lot longer than ANY .45 colt case. I need that extra length though, so this is good.
Using an NEI 455g flat point gas check boolit, I came up with an OAL of 1.854. The action will shut on that, engrave the boolit into the rifling and still extract with ZERO issues. I did this several times. It does engrave a little on the heavy side but it pulls right out with no tug. I did NOT crimp the case but I saw NO change in OAL so I'm callin' it good.
That OAL gives me a seating depth of .580 which leaves room for exactly 6.5g of Trail Boss with no compression.
Should I even use a crimp, this being a single shot? I know it would change the pressures, but as heavy as it engraves I don't really see a need.
What's yall's take on that???

[Mr Peabody]

I'd set my seating die to remove the flare but not crimp.

[Ben]

Ditto.

I've heard that a few loads are more accurate with a crimp.
But, my loading history with single shots is exclusively done with zero crimp. I have 5 Ruger # 1's. No crimp seems to work well with them.

I do set my seating die to remove the " bell " from the flare I put onto the case to ease the seating of the cast bullet. I like to take a set of calipers and adjust them to the outside of the neck of the case with the bullet seated, continue turning down the die body in trial and error removing the " bell " until the calipers will slide off the end of the case neck, lock the nut down and begin seating your bullets.

I don't call that a crimp, as said earlier ....that is just removing the flare you've put on the case mouth. You'll need ALL your cases trimmed to EXACTLY the same length for this to work well.

Ben

[roverboy]

I'd think that it should be just fine in a single shot. A NEI 455 gr. boolit is HEAVY.

[DeanWinchester]

I was tinkering some more this morning and it just seems silly on my part going this route, so let me get some opinions on this idea.

The chamber is overly long, no getting out of it. Why bother trying to make custom brass and fiddling with boolits that I can't get data for and probably won't jive wight the twist rate? I can rent a .454 Casull floating pilot reamer from Elk Ridge for $40, take it to a standard Casull chamber and run standard brass. It would still be perfectly safe to run .45 Colt loads in a pinch. I would NOT relabel the barrel designation in case I ever sell it. That way, some fool wouldn't be running hot rod loaded Casull in the rifle and any one smart enough to figure out that the chamber is long should (in theory) have enough sense not to drive the heck out of it.

I could use reduced Casull data and find a boolit that fits the new throat/lead without having to fiddle so much. Considering the trouble of trimming brass to a custom length, it would be $40 well spent. I could even go so far as to buy a Lee trim gauge, which is my preferred trim method and then ream the chamber to match that length (+ a few thousandths) and come out with a much more standardized set up.

I would think I could even shoot factory Casull ammo if I were inclined to. (Yeah, no thanks)
The SB-2 actions chambered in .270 Winchester which runs about 65K psi which is where the Casull runs. God knows I'll never go nosing around up there in those loads. I actually want to ENJOY shooting this little rifle. LOL!

[Nrut]

Just out of curiosity what size are you sizing the NEI 455gr bullet to?

I have been working with my .45 Colt Low Wall using a NEI 350gr (376gr lubed and gc'ed) bullet and am finding that a fired case will take that bullet sized at .456"..


Earlier this morning got to thinking about getting a H&R in .45 colt as it is DT for a scope I believe..
Is your H&R D&T?
Don't want to DT my Low Wall..

Idea is to shot at BP vel. (1200-1300fps) or subsonic with that NEI bullet..
Ordered a Smith ladder site for the LW and Buff Classic in 45-70 yesterday..

This is going to be fun!
Quiet and deadly in the thick stuff for deer up to moose..

Edit:
Just did a search on the H&R .45 Colt Carbine and found that they have been out of production since 2008..
Bummer!

[Ben]

DeanWinchester

Sounds to me like you're onto a very good strategy.

I had and SB 1 in 357 Mag. Using a 357 Max reamer on mine wasn't a safe option since it was an SB 1.

The rifling was 1/4 mile from the end of the case mouth.
I tried this and that.....with very little success with cast bullet styles and weights. I took the rifle to a gun show and it found a new home.

Best decision that I could have made with that particular rifle, at that point in time.

Oh, by the way.......... I think your shoulder will give out well before the SB-2 does.

Ben

[DeanWinchester]

I'm sizing the NEI boolit down to .454 and it fits everything pretty well. No major swelling of the case, although you can see a faint outline of the boolit base.
I'd like to try a lighter boolit. Lee makes a plain base 340g boolit that would work better I think.


And yeah yeah it's drilled for a scope base. Mine wears a rear peep and a globe front.

[Nrut]

The Lyman 340 gr. Gould HP would be great for deer also..
A friend's young son killed a cow moose using the Gould out of a beautiful home made FB 45-70 at about 1350fps..
I casted the bullets for him 50/50 annealed and he still had complete penetration..

[Catshooter]

Dean,

NEF chambers the SB 2 action for the .500 S&W. Nothing sane that you can do in a Casull will bother one.

Now your shoulder . . .


Cat

[DeanWinchester]

Well, it's pretty much a done deal now. I just rented a reamer from Elk Ridge. In a few days time, I will have a Classic Carbine chambered in .454 Casull.


Any of y'all ever use Elk Ridge? I never rented a reamer so I'll be nervous as a ***** in church using it. Goodsteel put me on to them so I figure they must be alright if he uses them.
Im going to do this nice and easy by hand. They really ain't much to take out anyway. I've got some OLD Tap Majic I've saved for special occasions. This is back when they used 1,1,1 TCE and it works wonderfully.

This should be an interesting little beast when finished. Knowing now that others have made theirs into .460 S&W with no problems, I may have to torque the Casull up a little bit for fun.

[MBTcustom]

The only thing you need to know about using a rented chamber reamer is that you must go slow, clear the chips often, and never ever turn it backwards. I prefer to use Elk ridge when I need to rent because they use PTG reamers exclusively, and all my house reamers are made by PTG.

I have used Tap Magic as a lubricant for the very final cut only (Dark cutting oil up to that point) and it certainly seemed to work perfectly and gave me a lot of "feel" for the cut. I would think that for you're situation it would work perfectly.

You're project is going to be a real walk in the park. Just run it in there till you kiss the face of the rim bore with the new reamer and you're there. Should be a 15 minute operation.

[DeanWinchester]

You're project is going to be a real walk in the park. Just run it in there till you kiss the face of the rim bore with the new reamer and you're there. Should be a 15 minute operation.

Yeah, I have some blue Dykem Im going to put on the chamber rim and ease in there till I touch it.

[John Boy]

What's yall's take on that???

Dean, IMO you are making a mountain out of a mole ... the Handi is chambered for the 45 Long Colt. So just buy some 45LC brass and the Ideal 454190 (265gr) bullets. Accurate Molds has the 454190 mold. Or you can buy the Magnus 300gr 454 Casull bullets and load them in the 45 Colt cases ... I do and they work perfectly
Load them with the proper smokeless and go hunting or target shooting

[DeanWinchester]

I got all kinds of (45 colt) brass. I even got 100pcs of virgin starline with the rifle. It's just very hard to reach the rifling. Good things happen when you lightly engrave the rifling on a cast boolit that fits the throat of your rifle. If I've learned nothing else in my years here at Castboolits, I have learned that.

[John Boy]

Good things happen when you lightly engrave the rifling on a cast boolit that fits the throat of your rifle. If I've learned nothing else in my years here at Castboolits, I have learned that.

Well Dean, in my decades of shooting multiple disciplines, proof is in the eating so goes the old axiom!
Your looking at 2 steel rams at 500 meters that were consecutively toppled with a 45 Colt Uberti '60 using 454 diameter Magnus 300gr bullets in 45LC cases. There are 5 silhouettes to a bank, 2 in a row in the picture - 1 missed and 2 more in a row that went down using a stock ladder receiver sight on the rifle !



So there is something new you learned on this forum - a 45 Colt Handi with 45LC cases and 454 diameter 300gr Magnus bullets and a good set of eyes ... Don't Need to Have the Ogive Engraved in the Leading Bore Cuts to Shoot Accurately. But I suppose if you want an engraved ogive - you can just seat the bullet out past the crimp groove. But be sure you have a hard crimp. Otherwise when the round is chambered, the bullet will be down near the primer hole

If you can match 500m or do better shooting long distance with your Rube Goldberg 454 Casull brass in a 45LC chamber with iron sights - post the picture in a PM & send it to me

And let me help you with your knowledge of firearms: revolver cylinders have "throats" - rifles don't. They have chambers and "leades"! Another something new you learned on the forum. Okie Dookie?

[DeanWinchester]

Woohoo! Mold came in today. Needs a bit of Lee-menting but I believe it's gonna be a dandy.
Plain base 340g .457 I will have to size back to .454 and lube with good ole Bens Red.

http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-457-340-f.html


Almost wish it was a gas check. I have a few pounds of Lil'Gun I don't plan on using. Hodgdons data shows a load for 335g lead boolit running 1400-1500fps. Be a little more than that in a rifle barrel. YOUSA! That'd be a hellcat!

[jmort]

The .357 Handi Rifles with the "long" SAAMI spec chamber shoot well with .38 special, at least the SB2, surprised by Ben's bad experience. There was an interesting article in Handloader where the author compared bullets seated out, "engaged,"assumed to be best practice, to bullet seated "normal" and the results were not as one would assume. Conclusion, experiment and see what works. You might be surprised. What John said, the other John, in post #16.

[DeanWinchester]

This little turd is quite the conundrum.
Took it out today for the first time. Shooting 20.0g of Lil'Gun in CBC cases with a 340g plain base sized .454 lubed with Bens Red.


It's not abusive but .454 Casull(yes, I went ahead and reamed it to .454 casull) in this little package with a steel buttplate packs a nice wallop.
Bench rested properly with support on the receiver and rear stock only, it made shotgun patterns. About 7 inches at 50 yards. I decided to burn the rest of the ammo by shooting offhand at 50 yards at clay targets. Hit every single one. Umm, okay. Put it back on the bench careful not to put pressure on the barrel and doing everything the same way, each time. All over the place. Shot the last few rounds offhand at 25 and 50 yards......dead on. Strange but I don't care, this is a fun gun to shoot.


Im going to have to back off the of a little as I was getting a little bit of leading half way down the bore. Not much, most came out on a dry patch. The blue bruise on my shoulder says I should back off a touch too, or wear something besides a tshirt. Lol!

[C. Latch]

You should have shot the last few with some pressure on the forearm. Would have been fun to see how they grouped that way, if they seemed to group well from offhand.