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Thread: 7.5x53.5 M1890 for Schmidt Rubin 1889

  1. #41
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Shot it this weekend with 5744.
    Loaded up with 24.0gr, 25.0gr, 26.0gr and 26.0gr.
    I tried it with dacron filler.
    24.0gr-- 50yds 1/2" to 1", 100yds 2" to 3". Blowback gone.
    25.0gr-- 50yds 1" to 2", 100yds 2" to 3". Primers flat.
    Didn't try the 26.0gr and 27.0gr loads.
    I'm going to try without the filler next.

  2. #42
    Banned 45 2.1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet View Post
    IMR 7383 is a milsurp powder. You can't load enough in most cases to reach maximum pressures and velocities. I've tried compressing it hard and recommend strongly against it. Pressures do appear to rise very rapidly when it's compressed. I find it very useful in cast bullet loadings for old military rifles in the .30 caliber-8mm range.
    What you've said is basically correct.... and compressing it is a poor idea. There are some additional things that you should probably know about this powder. It is possible to max out the pressure in a cartridge with it. I have done so in the 7.5 Swiss (K31). If you drop tube powder into the case slowly to full case capacity with a jacketed bullet, of the same weight or there abouts, as the military load, you get full duplication and accuracy as the military loads. Not all cases will give this as there are at least 9 different makers of these cases with various case weights. Merely loading it normally will not get there. The drop tubed charge weighs more also and gives full duplication pressure from what I've seen. If you try this with cast, let us know.

  3. #43
    Boolit Master madsenshooter's Avatar
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    7383 is coated with nitroguanidine, and it's hard to light. The powder was meant to be lit by a 50BMG primer and even a Federal Magnum won't light it right. The nitroguanidine is fragile, when you start compressing the powder, it fractures. Then you have some easier to light nitrocellulose that the primer flash can get too. But that's not the way it's supposed to work. What makes it flashless is the gases evolved from the first lit nitroguanidine keep the nitrocellulose from burning with a flame. I have had some success with a small kicker of double base powder, 3.5gr in the 30-40 Krag, which gets the temp and pressure up where the nitroguanidine burns first. No compression on the load above the kicker, base of the bullet touches just enough to hold the large flaked kicker in place at the rear. The unburned powder goes away and the smoke out the end of the barrel is white, not black. Flashless powder is also supposed to produce less smoke. I have some 190gr 316365 spitzers loaded in 30-06 this way that are going to get shot out of my Garand soon. 3.5gr 10B101, 43gr 7383. Yes, I have an adjustable gas plug, but it probably won't be necessary.
    Last edited by madsenshooter; 11-02-2014 at 03:58 PM.
    "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."

    -Thomas Jefferson

  4. #44
    Boolit Master Ricochet's Avatar
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    I've worked up my 7383 load to where I'm going to stop. 40 grains of it is a 3.4 cc Lee dipper pushed down into the powder for a gravity fill and the top scraped off with a card. With the 200 grain NuJudge boolits patched up to .323" that gave me an average velocity of 2077 FPS with good consistency. I'm using CCI #34 primers and have no problems with ignition, nor have I with standard large rifle primers in other cartridges. The reason for the unburned powder grains everyone comments on isn't poor ignition, it's loads that don't generate enough pressure for long enough to burn it efficiently. This load burns cleanly. The old Powley computer estimates the pressure at 28,800 CUP or 30,000 PSI. I'm aware of the large margin of error in its estimates. It's said to usually overestimate pressures in the 30,000 range, and I'm confident that I'm not pushing the limits with my 1889 in any case. I'm exceeding the original GP90's MV by 100 FPS, but the boolit is 200 grains vs. the original's 213 grains. The GP90/23 used a round nosed 190 grain FMJ bullet at 2050. I expect the trajectory will be close enough for the sight elevation to work reasonably well. I need to get out to the range when I have it to myself and hike out to the 300 yard position and put up some targets. At 100 or 200 it shoots so high that it's an exercise in Kentucky windage holding on imaginary spots below the target board to get it on paper, so I can't say much about how it groups. I had a problem yesterday with patches not separating from the boolits. I believe my "Brown Thunder" waxy lube penetrated the patches and glued them to the boolits. It is sticky. As a side note of interest, I found that when standing behind and just to one side of another shooter firing it, with a low angled bright ray of sun in front of the bench and shadow over the field, the white patched boolits were very clearly visible at over 2000 FPS whizzing from the muzzle downrange like tracer bullets! I could even see that some of them had the patches partially torn away and flared out, making the white blob noticeably bigger in diameter than .30 caliber! I have to fix that to get any decent accuracy. I'm about to patch up another batch, and just lube the patches with Vaseline as the Swiss did originally. That won't glue them on. Oh yeah, I'm not using any filler with these now, the case is nearly full.
    Last edited by Ricochet; 11-16-2014 at 03:34 PM.
    "A cheerful heart is good medicine."

  5. #45
    Boolit Master Ricochet's Avatar
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    I'm paper patching these boolits for the following reasons: 1) This is the way the Swiss did it from 1890-1923. It's a quirky way with both the "core" bullet and especially its patched diameter being much larger than the bore dimensions, but it worked for them. 2) I've never done paper patching before and wanted to try it. 3) It has turned out that once I'd selected suitable paper and determined the patch dimensions I can mass produce them on a paper cutter on my kitchen counter, then patch them right there on the counter top. 4) It takes little if any more time and effort to patch the boolits than to gas check, size and lube boolits. 5) Most importantly, once I've fireformed the cases by shooting them with gas checked boolits, the necks are grossly oversized for regular or fat .30 caliber boolits. Sizing them back down works the brass a lot, and either I'll have to frequently anneal them (which is a lot of work) or start losing cases to neck cracking early on. After all the work I did trimming these back with my hand-turned RCBS case trimmer, I want them to last as long as I can! I barely kiss the mouths with a Lee Universal Expanding Die, and the Lee 7.5X55mm bullet seater works fine. I don't try to remove the barely visible flare of the case mouth, they still chamber fine. I'm shooting low pressure loads, and the cases should last through a lot of firings this way.
    "A cheerful heart is good medicine."

  6. #46
    Boolit Buddy
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    Shot it yesterday with the following loads:

    Steps of 11-13gn Unique-equivalent behind a Lee 312-155-2R sized 312 (gave 1320 to 1520 fps)
    Steps of 34-36gn N140-equivalent behind a Lyman 314299 (200gn) sized 312 (gave 1755 to 1860 fps)

    Carnauba Red lube and a gascheck.

    No blowback in either case. Interestingly, 35.5gn N140 equivalent behind a 175gn j-word does give a little blowback, whereas all of these sealed rather nicely. Accuracy was excellent at 25m (although I shot standing offhand due to using the chrony).

    Apparently no ill effects from squeezing .312 lead down a .3035" hole

  7. #47
    Boolit Buddy Eddie1971's Avatar
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    My load I have used is with a Lyman 314299 powder coated, gas checked and sized to .314. This sits over 32 grains of IMR 4895. No bloeback and pretty accurate.

  8. #48
    Boolit Master
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    I use the Lyman 200g 314299 bullet, gas checked to .312 and tumble lubed with liquid Alox.

    I F/L size 7.5x55 PPU brass with a Hornady custom die, then trim back to 53.8mm with a LEE 7.5x54 MAS trim gauge.

    I then neck size to .311 with a Lyman M die.

    My powder and charge of choice is 28.5gn of Reloader 7, which gives an average M/v of 1862 fps and no blow-back.

    DISCLAIMER
    This load works in my rifle and is not intended as a recommendation for others to try, but is for information only.

    Use this load data entirely at your own risk.

    ukrifleman

  9. #49
    Boolit Buddy Eddie1971's Avatar
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    Tried a new load load out using my new NOE mold, 312299. Powder coated, sized to .312 and gas checked I loaded over 35-36 grains of IMR 4350 and I had great luck, better than IMR 4895. My gun a is a little bit of a beater, but it has a great bore and all matching. Shows no pressure signs or blow back. Like others mention use at your own risk.
    Last edited by Eddie1971; 08-23-2019 at 04:59 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check