Lee .452 200 SWC OAL and Case Width issues

[kenn]

I've been loading dummy rounds to get my initial settings where at least they'll feed before I starting loading minimum rounds. Here's what I have:

Lee 6 cavity .452 200 SWC mold
Lee .452 sizer (pushes through at .4525)
Lee 4-set die with Factory Taper Crimp
Sig 1911 Tacops with factory sig mags

I loaded three dummy rounds at the length called for in my lyman book (1.250). Taper crimp, at least from what I'm reading, should be .470.

After loading 3 dummies at 1.250 and putting a taper crimp in with the Lee factory taper crimp on 1/2 turn in, I get a taper of .473 and a bullet that won't feed all the way. It's out about 1mm or so.

I pushed the bullet down so the band is just barely above the case mouth -- almost even -- and turned my taper crimp die down 1 full turn. I get an OAL of 1.21 but I still have what seems to be a visible "bulge" from the bullet pressed deep into the case. Even with the aggressive taper crimp, the best I can get is .473 at the mouth.

The round will now seat fully literally by a hair and will slide in and out with just a tiny amount of friction but in no way will it keep it from going fully into battery. (a factory 230FMJ drops in and out very easily with apparent room to spare). I cycled three through the magazine and they all fed, seated, and ejected fine after several attempts so I think I've found a setting that's close.

I also popped a couple of dummies out with my inertia puller and found the boolits to still be .4525 as they were originally coming through the sizer.

The question is, is this what others are experiencing? I'm going to load Bullseye and will work up a charge, but want to make sure I'm not too far out of bounds.

[Jupiter7]

Drop the FCD, the plain lee taper die works great and is inexpensive. I load that bullet at 1.255 with .469-.470 crimp and boolit sized .452.

[kenn]

Perhaps I've mispoken... I believe the FCD, part 4 of a 4 part set, is just a taper crimp type die, isn't it? I know it's not a roll crimp die.... In reading about the FCD, Lee states that their plain "taper crimp" will offer no advantage over FCD in any of their dies made after 1986 according to their site.

[HeavyMetal]

If your adjusting the die "tighter" and not seeing more crimp, from what you post I believe your checking with at least a Dial caliper, then your either checking wrong ( hey it happens, LOL) or your experienceing Lee famous lack of QC and your FCD die is "cut" wrong.

Since you have the 4 die set I will suggest you remove the FCD die from the reloading cycle and try using the seating die in a two step operation, just to confirm the FCD die is at fault.

Load 5 rounds with the seating die far enough "up" so that it is not crimping at all, seat 5 rounds to your OAL then pull the seating stem out of that die and re-adjust to get your Taper crimp at .470.

I doubt both dies would be incorrect so if you can get the seater die to produce the .470 taper crimp the FCD die is "bad" if you can't get the desired taper crimp measurement a re-evaluation of measuring is needed.

I think you are going to find the seater die works just fine and you'll find you can crimp as needed. I would contact Lee and ask that your FCD die be exchange for a replacement Taper crimp only die do not let them BS you into another FCD die!

[kenn]

If your adjusting the die "tighter" and not seeing more crimp, from what you post I believe your checking with at least a Dial caliper, then your either checking wrong ( hey it happens, LOL) or your experienceing Lee famous lack of QC and your FCD die is "cut" wrong.

Since you have the 4 die set I will suggest you remove the FCD die from the reloading cycle and try using the seating die in a two step operation, just to confirm the FCD die is at fault.

Load 5 rounds with the seating die far enough "up" so that it is not crimping at all, seat 5 rounds to your OAL then pull the seating stem out of that die and re-adjust to get your Taper crimp at .470.

I doubt both dies would be incorrect so if you can get the seater die to produce the .470 taper crimp the FCD die is "bad" if you can't get the desired taper crimp measurement a re-evaluation of measuring is needed.

I think you are going to find the seater die works just fine and you'll find you can crimp as needed. I would contact Lee and ask that your FCD die be exchange for a replacement Taper crimp only die do not let them BS you into another FCD die!

Thanks for all the data! I'll experiment with it today and see what I come up with. As far as measuring, I've measured 90 ways to Sunday with my dillon caliper using the larger part the of blade and the sharp pointy part. I get exactly .470 on a factory ball round... I also have a Mitutoyo micrometer (analog) and I can measure it down to .4275 +- .0005 on that.

[walltube]

Hello kenn,
I think we are using the same Lee boolit for our .45 ACP pistols. If so, this boolit with WW231 have rendered a reliable and consistant combo in my EAA Witness. Many a paper plate and zombie poster have met their deserved end when I do my part.....

Applying the taper crimp should be the last step in the re-loading procedure. Please, use a real taper crimp die manufactured by a maker with a reputation for quality products, ie: Redding, Hornady or Dillon. Use a micrometer to measure your components.

Use a cartridge gauge. Dillon's stainless steel cartridge gauge is my favorite because it does not rust and has a handy knurling to make things easy. Dillon has been proven (to me) a reliable instrument.

A question, I suspect you bought the Lee kit because it is an inexpensive kit? Nothing wrong with Mr. Lee's products, mind you. His tools have given many re-loader their first go in this hobby, avocation, whatever. But, you have already found dis-satisfaction with the FCD. Discard it and get a die with a low anguish factor.
I think can hear the crackling of flames out there....HAR!

Relax, take it easy and enjoy making your own stuff,
Be of good cheer,
Wt.

[Jupiter7]

Perhaps I've mispoken... I believe the FCD, part 4 of a 4 part set, is just a taper crimp type die, isn't it? I know it's not a roll crimp die.... In reading about the FCD, Lee states that their plain "taper crimp" will offer no advantage over FCD in any of their dies made after 1986 according to their site.

It is. But ive had two of the 4 FCD dies out of spec. Replaced all of them with either lee taper crimp or redding profile crimp dies. The FCD rifle is a different animal all together and works great. No fuss, set and forget. The pistol FCD for whatever reason just is more trouble than it's worth.

[mdi]

Easy way to test chambering. Also, use caution when crimping as it's easy to over crimp and bulge the case. I don't "crimp" my 45 ACP rounds, I just use a taper crimp die to remove any flare in the case mouth, straighten the case.

[gray wolf]

I don't think you have to seat your bullet quite that deep.
Take an empty sized case and flare the case mouth like you were going to seat a bullet, but do not put a bullet into it. Now try to drop it into the barrel ( barrel out of pistol ) naturally it will not chamber, because of the flare, Now start putting a taper crimp on the case a little at a time until the case drops freely into the barrel and drops out freely.
Apply the crimp slowly, we do not want to over do it, when the case goes in and out with little to no resistance
Measure the case mouth and record it. now we know that a case will in fact go in and out with the proper case mouth reduction ( crimp )
The case mouth should be about .468 .470 at this time. Now seat a bullet in another flared case and have the top of the front band even with the case mouth, (no front band above the case mouth)
reproduce the crimp that let the first sample case chamber, In theory the round should chamber, a little bulge in the case that shows grease grooves is normal to an extent.
If you have success to this point you can now try to put a little more of the bullet outside the case mouth,
Do that until the round drops in and the back of the case in even with the barrel hood or a couple of Thou below it like the diagram in the above post.

[Cherokee]

I found that the Lee 452200 SWC seated at 1.245" worked fine in several different 45 ACP guns; 1911, XDM, Star, Taurus. I like 231/HP38 and WST for my loads.

[oldfart1956]

Kenn check your p.m. box. Sent you some suggestions. Audie...the Oldfart..

[fredj338]

First, Lyman data for oal, only good for that bullet. Even then, oal is bbl & bullet specific, it must fit your gun. I agree with most, the LFCD is a gimmick, you are better off using the taper crimp in your seating de, all seating dies have them, or just get a diff taper crimp only die. Ther are many, many guys that have been duped by he LFCD in handgun rds.

[Lead]

I have the same lee set an mold, an have had no problems as of yet. Contact lee take pics of the bullet in the mic. They should send you a new one.

[kenn]

Forum down for a while. I tested a few things. Winchester brass is .011 wall thickness min, some or .012. Using the thinnest (.011) times 2 plus the bullet @ .4525, I get a total OD of .4745. Taper crimping it down to .470 would necessarily swage the bullet down unless bullets have some magic that defies physics. I have been able to taper down to .472 very near the edge and with the bullet seated to the top of the band, it will drop in and out easily. Don't know how it will fire yet, as I haven't tested it, but I've loaded 2 sets of Bullseye charged @ 3.7 and 3.9. Will see how those go before I load a full box.