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Thread: Alliant 410

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Alliant 410

    Anyone tried alliant 410 in place of 2400? Looking at it and it's application versus 2400 in the 410 shotgun indicates it might be usable as a substitute, I can get some 410 at old price but can't find 2400.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Might be worth looking in to. Checked a burn rate chart, it's right next to 5744, which is a good bit slower than 2400. Can't rely fully on charts but it might be useful. GW
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I've used it in Ruger 45 Colt loads and 454 Casull loads. It seemed to push the same boolits down range nearly the same velocity and I can't remember if it was 30 fps one direction or the other vs 2400. I used it for mid to upper mid loads and it did well as 2400 for what I was doing.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I thought it seemed like it might be in the ballpark of 2400. It's granual size and density even seemed similar. I can get a 4pounder for $68. I've found some other replacements for other old standards but then they ranout. I think I'll get plenty of this stuff.

  5. #5
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    RobS: how did the charge weights compare? Were you using the same grains?
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I use A410 in 5/8 oz loads using 444 Marlin brass (fiber over powder wad, BPI plastic shot cup with base cut off and over shot card glued in place.

    I didn't use as a 2400 replacement but in that format found 12.5 grs very effective and reasonably clean burning.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonp View Post
    RobS: how did the charge weights compare? Were you using the same grains?
    Yes.........in the 454 Casull I used 20 grains for both powders and I can't remember what I was using in the Ruger only loads it's been too long about they were the same charge.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Shot some 410 today. I usually load 13.5g of 2400 in my 44spl. I loaded 12g of 410, Recoil was a little less,poi a little higher with the same bullet indicating slower velocity. Primers looked fine. Seems to be right in line with expectations. Accuracy not as good,vertical stringing. I think I'll up the charge a little and see what happens.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    POI higher is not generally a sign of slower velocity but higher velocity. And vertical stringing is usually a sign of hitting max load. If no chronograph, try 12.5 grs and 12 grs and see what happens.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master DrCaveman's Avatar
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    Ive been trying it in my 460 magnum so i can preserve whats left of my 2400 supply
    So far, things are going real well. Its beating aa#9 in the accuracy dept and there are no pressure signs
    Loads are starting weights for 2400, volume is more however. Case fill is nice
    Im gonna up the charge for this weekend.
    Weather is great, so no worries. 410 supposedly pressure spikes at low temps, but i must admit that my saying that is just passing on a rumor supposedly started by an alliant tech. No first hand experience of said pressure spikes

    I think with moderate loads it ought to be ok. Im interested in your results. Ill try to post chrono results this weekend, as the loads compare to 2400 and aa#9.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    RPRNY All else the same I've never seen a higher velocity load print higher at 25yds in 30 years of handgun shooting. If you read my post you would see I tried 12g. DrCaveman thanks for the info on your experiment. I've not tried#9 but it's only a 44spl. I'll keep everyone informed as I go but I only get to shoot 1 day a week so this might take a while.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master DrCaveman's Avatar
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    Quoted from another author who says it better than me:

    "
    If recoil is equal the bullet that spends longest in the barrel will hit higher on the target since that gives the recoil impulse longer to lift the muzzle before the bullet exits the barrel.

    So if you're comparing loads that recoil about the same amount the heavier bullet will be going slower, will spend more time in the barrel and will hit higher on the target at typical pistol ranges.

    If one of the loads recoils MARKEDLY more than the other load it will probably print higher on the target. The much harder recoiling load bumps the muzzle upward much harder as the gun recoils and will result in the muzzle being higher when the bullet exits.
    "

    This suggests a lower velocity load than produced by 13.5 gr of 2400 stated by wallnutt. For same boolit weight, this usually makes sense...unless there is an extreme difference in powder charge weight which contributes substantially to greater recoil.

    Some interested threads have come up over the past year or so about people experimenting with this powder in metallic cartridges...most of those threads never really concluded.

    Any of you prior experimenters care to share? Marlinjunky, Lar45? I know you guys considered it, but your last reports to me were that it fell by the wayside to other powders

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Thank You Dr Caveman. At 25yds the bullet has not crossed the line of sight the second time. If the bullet had crossed the LOS the second time(longer distance) RPRNY would be correct. Maybe I should have stated my distance to target for load testing. I still have found vertical stringing due to air space/inconsistant pressure with slower powders.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Sorry. Was assuming longer distance. You are quite right. Problem with assumption of course. Still, vertical stringing says "beyond optimal load density". A410 can be spikey. Have only used in shot shell applications where this isn't a problem. Considered using it in 45 Colt and was warned off because of this by people I trust but with no empirical data

  15. #15
    Boolit Master DrCaveman's Avatar
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    Rprny

    In what applications have you found a410 to be spikey? Im still trying to figure...and tiptoe...around the issues supposedly presented by alliant technicians. The only "consistent" story i have heard is that it is inverse temp sensitive. Which to me means: dont bring it on a winter hunt.

    Ive got 8 months of the year where it doesnt get below 45-50 degrees. Also rarely exceeds 90 during that time. And 2-3 of those months are deer/elk season. I dont want to be the guinea pig that discovers the threshold temp, but i also dont want to waste a potentially awesome powder for this gun/cartridge

    Also the distance thing is interesting...at what range is holdover required due to insufficient velocity/trajectory vs the inherent muzzle rise effect of a slower load?

  16. #16
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    alliant 410

    If the distance is great enough for the bullet to have passed through the line of sight the second tme would not a higher velocity bullet fall less and appear to shoot higher? This at least appears to happen moreso with rifles versus handguns possibly due to greater distance generally associated with rifles.
    Last edited by WALLNUTT; 06-11-2014 at 05:55 AM. Reason: additional information

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Loaded some 44spl today. 13.5gr of 2400 and 13.2gr of 410,same powder measure setting. It appears the 2 powders have similar densities.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Shot the 410 load in my Ruger FT 44spl today,13.2 g and got the same great accuracy and poi as 13.5g 2400.I'm gonna like the Al 410 in place of 2400. I will get another 4 pounder.

  19. #19
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    Nice, Good info to know.... I am feeling like I should try some for Spring/Summer/Fall loading as a replacement for 2400... save The last of the 2400 for serious hunting.... I wonder how it will do in a 30 cal rifle....

  20. #20
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    It sounds like all the new alliant shotgun powders steel, 410, 20/28 are just the ticket if you can find them
    Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
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    Sic transit gloria mundi ( the glory of man is fleeting)
    Whispered in Julius Caesars ear before every speech to remind him that everything comes to an end.

    Non nobis Domine,
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    sed nomini tuo da gloriam

    (Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us,
    but to thy name give the glory.)
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check