NOE 358009 boolit and a 35 whelen

[TXGunNut]

Did you swap him out of some RP 9 1/2's?

[35 shooter]

Lol I think he's still guarding em pretty close. They have seemed to have picked his overall accuracy up in his h&r. I'm gonna pick some up and give em a try eventually.

[TXGunNut]

I guess you didn't make it to the range yesterday, either. I didn't get my ammo loaded until too late, was doing too much piddling, straightening up and researching. Range bag sitting by the door, rifles are cleaned but one never made it to the safe. Might be a long week.

[35 shooter]

LOL you better move that range bag away from the door or you may suddenly decide not to show up for work one day this week.
Got rained out here for sunday but i may slip out for a while in the morning. Hope i haven't got that pb boolit pushed too fast with 4759, i hate cleanin lead out.

[35 shooter]

Took another range trip today.It's definitely getting hot in south central ms. Even when it's in the low 90's the heat index and humidity here raises it to over 100*. It's getting more like work than fun just to go shoot now.
The 53 1/2 gr. load that shot fairly well the other day had mostly vertical dispersion in it , so i was suspicious of that load and the vertical did show up again today.
The two main things i took away from this trip is that imr4350 looks like it is going to shoot better around the 54 to 54 1/2 gr. range just like it did with the 200 gr. boolits and Ben's Red lube is holding up fine in the heat.

100 yd. results:
(1) 48 gr. imr4350...5 shots in 1.578" from a whistle clean bbl. 1.1" after foul shot for 4 shots
(2) 53 1/2 gr. imr4350...5 shots about 5" vertical
(3) 54 gr. imr4350...5 shots 1.802" nicely rounded with only about 1 1/8" vertical

I did fire some rounds with the 280 gr. pb boolit and 4759 with no filler and ran it up to about 1750 fps according to a load manual. Just a very few fine specks of lead came out after running a brush through the bbl. after about 20 shots. I don't think there would have been any at all if i had used a filler. Also didn't get any accuracy without a filler with 4759 but i was just checking for a bit of speed and got it.

[Ben]

and Ben's Red lube is holding up fine in the heat.


Sounds good, keep squeezing the trigger.

Ben

[TXGunNut]

LOL you better move that range bag away from the door or you may suddenly decide not to show up for work one day this week.
Got rained out here for sunday but i may slip out for a while in the morning. -35 shooter

Been raining off and on since Sunday but the farmers are happy so I'm happy too. Might as well go to work since it's raining. Just checked, range bag still waiting patiently by the door. Shooting buddy had surgery on his hand yesterday so I'll probably have to shoot his guns too.

[35 shooter]

Hate to hear about your shooting pardner. Hope all goes well with him. Looks like things are picking up a bit with that 280 on the high end with 4350...hope so anyway. I think the lack of vertical in that last group was a good sign. Hope you find a bug hole group with your 360318 soon!

[TXGunNut]

Surgery went well, thanks. He and I are old pros with orthopods; me when I was young and clumsy, him now that he's old and worn out, lol. And no, we don't compare scars. We'd rather shoot.
I'm looking for a hunting load, I can't expect my rifle & loads to shoot bug hole groups when I generally can't do my part.
Don't give up on that BB load, high hopes for that one.

[35 shooter]

Surgery went well, thanks. He and I are old pros with orthopods; me when I was young and clumsy, him now that he's old and worn out, lol. And no, we don't compare scars. We'd rather shoot.
I'm looking for a hunting load, I can't expect my rifle & loads to shoot bug hole groups when I generally can't do my part.
Don't give up on that BB load, high hopes for that one.

Nah, no give up to it. Thinking about loading some reduced loads with 3031 and 4895 for a serious start with the pb boolit. Even reduced they may be a bit fast for it though. 4759 with a filler may be a better choice? Wish i could find aa3100 or 8700 locally as i think they would be perfect for it. Seems like powder is becoming more and more available lately locally, so maybe.

[TXGunNut]

I'm not convinced my 360318 really needs a GC, have considered PB'ing a few GC moulds. Need to chrono a few hunting loads, not sure the 360-235 in my 35 Rem needs one either. IF my rifle would feed that 358009 and I could get it to shoot accurately I'd be very happy with a PB 358009. Glad you got one cavity of each, that was a very good decision.

[35 shooter]

I'm glad noe offers the option in his moulds and that he had one in stock. Also glad the whelen has a neck that would accept it so well. I need to do some chrono work myself as it may turn out the 48 gr. 4350 gc load will be slow enough to work with the pb boolit too. I don't think it's gonna be much of a problem to get this boolit to shoot as that gc boolit just does'nt get out of 1 1/2" on the low end so far, and i haven't even tweaked seating depth yet. Getting it right on the high end has been a different story so far but i believe it'll do it.

[Yodogsandman]

You seem to be on the cusp of something good, maybe a little tweak is all you need. Can't wait to see your chrono reports. Maybe ES and SD will tell you something.

With my own 35 project, I'm just about all set to go. Got a scope mounted. Shot it and I'm now on paper. I cast a pot on 6/22, sized and H/T'd 6/23 and lubed 6/24.


35 shooter, this is my first time oven heat treating, how long are you waiting before shooting your bullets? I heated my bullets for about an hour and a half at 450 degrees and dumped them quick in a bucket of cool water. I went an hour and a half because I didn't know if I could trust my yard sale toaster oven.

[35 shooter]

Yodogsandman i've shot them as quickly as 48 hours later and haven't noticed any difference in groups. In fact i always try to lube and size within 48 hrs. as they get hard quickly.
You might consider picking up a oven thermometer to make sure what temp. your running as the ovens are rarely calibrated right. At least that's what i did. I found one at a local hardware store. If i have the time i lube and size as soon as they are dry from dunking in water, as they go through the sizer easily then.
My system is to put the bullets on a tray in the oven and then i have an old cake pan i fill with cold water just before removing the boolits from the oven. I just submerge the the whole tray of bullets in the pan of water as quick as i can without spilling any of them. I let them stay in water for at least 5 min. to make sure they cool evenly all the way through, 10 min. may be better. Put em on a dry towel and roll em a bit and usually let em dry overnight, but have sized a few hours later.

BTW good to hear your getting geared up again with your whelen. Looking forward to see how it goes for you. You've definitely got an awesome boolit there to work with.

[Yodogsandman]

Thanks for the info...looks like I can go shoot these up anytime. My wifey has all sorts of those thermo-thingys, she won't mind (know)Attachment 109037 if I use one.

[Shuz]

While I'm not a metallurgist, nor do I play one on TV, I have read articles written by metallurgists that claim that sizing a cast boolit after heat treating "work softens" the sides of the boolit that come into contact with the sizing die. This they claim defeats the purpose of heat treating to get a hardness needed to drive the boolits at a higher velocity. It is an extra step, granted, but what they recommend is to size the boolits as cast and then heat treat them and then to lube them, run them back thru a sizing die of preferably a thousandth larger die so as not to work soften the sides. I have never tested this theory because most of my cast boolit shooting is with velocities under 1800 fps, and I have obtained accuracy good enough to compete in CBA matches without heat treating my boolits. Maybe I should test this theory because I do shoot my .35 Whelens to 2150 fps and .30-30's with LeveRevolution to 2250fps. with heat treated boolits.

[Yodogsandman]

It turns out that all her "thermo-thingys" are meat probes and only go up to 200 degrees. I'll have to go looking for a proper thermometer some day. Being my first time, I kind of went by the seat o my pants. I sized the bullets to .359" dry the next day after molding. Then laid them in a single layer on the toaster oven pan that I had covered first with aluminum foil. Put them in the oven and cranked up the heat setting to 450 degrees. I expected the light on the front to go on and off when the oven cycled. It didn't. I noticed the coils glowed during the heat cycle and went dark when at temp. I kept watch to check for slumping or outright puddling. After an hour and a half of this, I figured they must have had enough heat. I took them out and dropped them immediately into a 5 gallon bucket of cool water from the hose. I dumped the water off outside after about 10 minutes. I dried them with paper towels and left them on paper toweling overnight. I lubed and GC'd them using the same .359" die. I knew I should have used a .360 die to lube with but, I haven't got one yet. I noticed that all the bullets had lost that frosted look and some showed what looked like light scorching. I think they're much harder now just judging by the fingernail test. Not sure if I'm going to need that thermometer. From what I've read, after the initial hardening from the heat treating, the bullets will continue to "age harden" for a couple weeks and then mostly stabilize for quite a while. Most seem to accept 48 hours as enough time to wait to shoot the HT'd bullets.

BTW- I had read an old post of yours, 35 shooter and specifically checked for flat spots on the sides of the bullets and I didn't have any.

[35 shooter]

Shuz i'm sure no expert on it for sure and i have read those same things before pertaining to heat treating and water dropping and sizing.
I used to do it the way you described and still would if i were water dropping. I've heard the hardening doesn't go as deep or evenly through the boolit when water dropping?
Anyway, i think it was on the lasc site that i read where some were sizing to final dia. and lubing at the same time even as long as 48 hrs. after heat treating. I gave it a try and it seemed to work and finally had some tested and they came out about 27 bhn. but i don't remember how old the boolits were.
The only thing i know for sure is i can shoot them 48 hrs. later and get great accuracy the same as if i had waited 1 or 2 weeks or more. But i'm not saying it's the best way to do it. I've also noticed that about 24 hr. after ht treating they seem to be about the same hardness whether they were sized or not (can't scratch em with a fingernail test). It does save time and seems to work for me so i kept doing it that way.
I also did a thread on here one time on heat treating boolits and sizing and gas checks related i think some folks here were doing the same thing if i remember right.

[35 shooter]

Yodogsandman sounds like you've got the process nailed down. I did get a few flat spots on mine before i got the oven thermometer lol. I was verging on too hot with the temp. going by the oven readings. Mine is a cheap dollar store type and is 50* or more than what it says.
Hope they shoot good for you. Mine won't shoot at all over about 1800 fps. without heat treating, or at least, not so far.

[Yodogsandman]

I might have run into that 1800 ft/sec wall, also. After my first shoot, I had more questions than answers....still do. With the scope going bad, I questioned all my results. Above 42gr IMR4064 groups opened up to +1" but <2". At and above 46gr, groups went to >3". I used the 50gr load to sight in and it seemed to shoot about a 4" group. Not enough shells to really tell. Seeing that you've been having good luck with the HT'd boolits, I decided I needed to HT also.

Still, no leading even at 50gr with AC COWW + 2%SN. I don't expect that I'll have any with the HT boolits.

I didn't slug my bore. I had ruined a good cleaning rod doing that on another gun years and years ago, and I'm still not set up to do it right. So, decided to try a .359 sizer instead of the .358". I just got the .359" sizer for this and I should have started there anyways.