NOE 358009 boolit and a 35 whelen

[35 shooter]

That's the great thing about this range lol. First off, it's on state hunting land way back in the woods. No one really lives in ear shot of it. The other thing is, it's on the back side of the National Guards Camp Shelby, so the guns are booming over there all the time lol.

[sthwestvictoria]

FWIW--I've been using the Lyman 358009 for 15 years with 3:1(COWW's:lino) heat treated to Bhn 22+, and 48g of AA4064. Velocity chrono's @ 2150fps. This load shoots a little over 1" at 100 yds and has accounted for 2 bull moose and 1 bull elk, as well as many white tailed deer.

This is interesting - I have an accurate HT load however I thought the gospel was you should be using a softer alloy for hunting and so I have been trying to go softer however the accuracy drops right off:

I have an lovely accurate load with oven heat treated COWW, 2%tin:

and yesterday I shot these two groups, trying to arrive at a softer alloy for hunting:

Apart from changing the alloy, everything about the load - primer, neck sized cases, same 42.0grains AR2206H (H4895), same OAL, same lube, same .358 sized, same gun, same range. The only difference and a reason to re-shoot the groups was some sun in the eyes at that time of day. There was a scope point of aim adjustment between the top target and lower two groups.
The Air cooled WW group is acceptable for hunting at a 2" group 100metres however I was impressed how much of a departure in accuracy there was from the Heat Treated group in the top target to the two lower groups.

I will re-shoot the two softer groups however maybe I should just be happy with the better accuracy of the HT load. If I used the HT load then I could also push the velocity up a bit from the current 1800fps.

[Shuz]

sthwestvictoria--I chased the "softer is better for hunting" theory for a while, but I came to the conclusion(duh), that an accurate heat treated boolit can be driven faster, thus with a better trajectory, and could improve my shot placement at further distances.

[35 shooter]

Fifteen years with the same load and the performance you've had with it speaks for itself. I'm glad all this came up.
The main thing i've been worried about is ww ht @ 27 bhn might be too brittle against bone. So maybe a little lead and or tin added to my hunting boolits will put me where i want to be. It certainly sounds like the .35 bore can do well without the expansion. Actually sounds like i just need to test em on something hard right where they are to see if i get break up. If they don't then problem solved. I'm liking the whelen more and more all the time.

[Shuz]

My alloy of 3:1 is 3 parts COWW to 1 part Lino. I do this for the tin in the lino, not the extra antimony. Seems to work well. Nowadays since lino is getting pretty pricy, I'm experimenting with COWW +1% tin, mixed 50/50 with pure lead. This experimenting has been with the .30-30 and .44 magnum. I still use the aforementioned 3:1 in my Whelen.

[Bjornb]

Shuz is being very modest. Here's the link to his writeup on the 358009: http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByC...e%20358009.pdf

[smoked turkey]

Thank you for posting the link Bjornb. Thanks to Shuz for the writeup. I have that in my "file" and plan to do some serious load work up with my Ruger model 77 and my 3589 mould. I will have to check my records later, but I believe my Ruger to be a 1/14 twist. I have not taken it hunting yet but plan to give it a go next deer season. I do realize that it really shines with larger animals, but we have to do with what we got. I plan to follow the water drop method in order to make the boolit bhn higher.

[35 shooter]

My crazy computer says gallery won't open on that file because i don't have latest updates or something. Guess i'll have to get my oldest son to check it out for me. I have seen some of shuz's old posts on that load but don't know if that's the one or not.

Loaded 52, 53, and 53.5 gr. of imr 4350 to try this weekend hopefully. Also loaded 12 and 13 gr. of unique for the pb boolit. The group i shot with 12 gr. was probably a fluke and never happen again. There were a lot of holes in my backing and the paper actually tore and folded under on the left side of that group, so it was really hard to tell what i had, but it WAS tight. The total width of that group from the tear to the outside edge of farthest hole was only .559"
Had to be a fluke,but we'll see.
I finally found some hard data for the 358009 but it is with aa4350 powder. It's a bit slower and of course has a different coating than imr. My brother requested the data from them and we were surprised to find they had it. It wasn't on their load data when i last looked but they sure sent him a print out on it. Anyway they list 55 gr. as max with aa4350 @2203 fps. They don't show compression with that load. Time to get the chrono out on the imr.
BTW...pressure with the aa4350 load is listed at 41,600 psi.

[35 shooter]

Had a fair day at the range today. I was pleased to find out the 12 gr. load of unique wasn't such a fluke after all with the pb boolit. The 48 gr. imr 4350 load has held up each time consistently keeping 5 shots in 1 1/2" or less except the one time i forgot to take the flare out of the case mouth that shot the 1.6" group.
Results from today @ 100 yds.:
(1) 12 gr. unique and pb boolit...4 shots in 1.065" after foul shot.
(2) 13 gr. unique and pb boolit...5 shots in 2.665"
(3) 52, gr. imr4350 and gc. boolit...5 shots in 1/2" wide by 4" vertical
(4) 53 gr. imr4350 and gc. boolit...5 shots in 4 3/4" vertical
(5) 53 1/2 gr. imr4350 and gc boolit...5 shots in 1. 721"

My 200 gr. boolits will shoot lights out at 54 1/2 gr. of imr4350 and it appears the 009 boolit is getting better again in this range. Still no pressure so far except on my shoulder and that's more of a big push...does get your attention though. I can tell the powder will be very close to the boolit base at 54 1/2 gr with the 358009.

[Yodogsandman]

Very encouraging results. Can't wait for your next range results. Hey, what's the difference in where the groups shoot on the target, between the pb and gc boolits?

[TXGunNut]

Very encouraging results. Can't wait for your next range results. Hey, what's the difference in where the groups shoot on the target, between the pb and gc boolits?

I'd SWAG it @ around 8".

[35 shooter]

Very encouraging results. Can't wait for your next range results. Hey, what's the difference in where the groups shoot on the target, between the pb and gc boolits?

My original sight in was with a 200 gr. boolit 2400 fps + @ 3.5" high @ 100yds. The 53 1/2gr. load with the 280 gr. gc boolit is only about a half inch under that and the unique loads are about 14 to 15" low with the pb. so far. One thing i love about the whelen is that it seems to be one of those calibers that shoots centered with any bullet or boolit weight. The only adjustment needed is vertical. At least this rifle is that way.
It also worked out well with another load that shoots well with the 200 gr. at 1800 fps that hits dead center @ 100 yds. with this same sight in....pretty easy to see why the 35 whelen has become my favorite caliber.

[TXGunNut]

Have you tried 2400 under that PB boolit?

[35 shooter]

TX wish i had some 2400 to try. I do have an old can of 4227 on hand. Also talked to NOE a bit about the pb and they seem to know folks that are running it at 1800 fps with no problem. I would like to try some aa3100 or aa8700 with it to fill the case and keep pressures down and run it 1800 to 2000 fps if i can get away with it. That particular boolit is probably gonna keep me busy at the range for the next year.

BTW my brother in co. has some aa4350 he's going to try with the 358009. If he "hits" a good load i'll post it.

[Yodogsandman]

+1 on the favorite caliber! That's nice having the 200 gr and 282 gr so close together!

[35 shooter]

Got a few 4759 loads to try with the pb tomorrow if the rain lets me. Not using a filler at this point (fillers always shoot best for me with 4759), just easing the speed up and check for leading. Also rechecking a load or two with the gc boolit and 4350. Gotta fire my melting pot up again and get some more cast, i'm running low on boolits!

[TXGunNut]

Always wanted to try 4759 but when I find it the price changes my mind. Isn't that one of the powders slated to be discontinued?
Might do a little casting myself today, range trip rained out. Loaded my last 360-235's for some 35 Rem loads last night.

[35 shooter]

Yes, 4759 is slated to be discontinued. I'm trying to make up my mind about stocking up on some more of it or not. It is a good powder for cast if you use a filler to take up the air space in the case, which is a bit of a hassle. Smaller capacity cases may not need the filler but my experience with it in the whelen says it cuts groups in half or better. It gets my 200 gr. boolits up to 2200 fps. easily with good accuracy. Shoots even better with 26 gr. at about 1800 fps. I don't like the hassle of using fillers,but the results were worth it in the accuracy department.

[TXGunNut]

I haven't ventured into fillers, I try instead to find powders with a load density of 95% or better. On loads with less than 95% density I use powders that aren't known to be position sensitive. I realize this limits my powder choices but I'm just not comfortable with fillers.
I've also wanted to try 5744 but it's only a little more common than 4759 around here, seldom see either.

[35 shooter]

Well my brother made a report on the aa4350 with his 280 gr. gc boolits. He was only shooting at 50 yards with 3 shot groups. 53 gr. went into 1/2" and 55 gr. printed a .9" with 2 touching so he's gonna shoot those two loads at a 100 yds. sometime this week.