"Soft Guts"

[beezapilot]

This morning at the Trap Range a very nice old gentleman gave me an Iver Johnson (Uberti) "Cattleman" in .44 Mag. Searching around on the web they've their share of problems, most notably is the "soft guts" comment that pops up on most everything that I've found. Would it make sense, as this is a low use firearm, to disassemble, clean up & polish the "guts" and run them through some Caseinite to case harden them?

[country gent]

With out knowing the actual grade of steel, this could cause more harm than good. 4440 is diffrent than 8620. Cold roll (1020) case hardens very well though but not knowing what it is will be guessing. You could possibly get a idea spark testing the parts. just heating and quenching the wrong steel could make a brittle part without annealing it. Caseinite adds carbon to the outer layer of the part allowing case or surface hardining. A already high carbon steel with added carbon may harden though out and be britle.

[dilly]

What about just using 44 special?

[oldred]

While some might disagree I think probably no because you do not know for sure what kind of metal they are, some alloys can be damaged by case hardening and some of these could possibly castings of some type (not necessarily cast iron as we tend to think of it). It could be they are an alloy steel that could be heat treated but wasn't or they could indeed just be a low carbon material that could be case hardened but unless you know for sure you run the risk of broken and ruined parts.


BTW, if you do decide to try it Kasenit has been off the market for more than a couple of years now and you won't likely find any but "Cherry Red" is another hardening compound that works nearly as well and it is still available. Kasenit had an insignificant amount of a cyanide compound in it and when someone at the EPA saw that they went beserk as EPAers tend to do and had it yanked off the market, never mind people have been using it for years without any problems.

[beezapilot]

Oh, yeah- this one is for reduced loads, it feels no where as solid as my 29, I hope to try a little cowboy shooting with this one.
Can you outline "spark test"??

[oldred]

Oh, yeah- this one is for reduced loads, it feels no where as solid as my 29, I hope to try a little cowboy shooting with this one.
Can you outline "spark test"??

Except for determining cast iron from steel spark testing can be a bit tricky unless someone has a lot of experience doing it, even then there is still a chance for error. Cast iron however is vastly different from any steel alloy and can easily be identified by the short "bursting" sparks as compared to the long streamers from steel.

[Wayne Smith]

Contact Uberti. I'll bet they will advise you. I have found the Italian companies very helpful and respond to e-mails quickly.

[alrighty]

I have one made by Uberti ,a cattleman but it was sold under the Uberti name.I did have to replace some internals on mine.I know at one time parts were still available from Numrich gun parts corporation.

[country gent]

A spark test is a way of getting an idea of what a material might be. It is toucjed to an gringind wheel lightly and the color shape length of sparks noted. Then known steel alloies grades are touched again watching for the same spark pattern. It isnt exact but the more known samples you have the closer you can "guess" what it is. Not as accurate as someother methods but needs the least equipment.

[Springfield]

Never hurts to take them apart and polish off the machining marks. At that point you should be able to tell if anything is hardened or not. I have lots of Ubertis and shoot them every month and haven't had to replace any triggers or sears yet. I have found that the hammers are very hard but the triggers tend to act like mild steel, so I just keep them well lubed.

[alrighty]

I should have stated in my reply the reason I had to replace the hammer and sear was because someone got carried away with polishing.After replacing the parts everything has been fine.Perhaps yours could be hardened correctly.Another quick easy way to test is to simply try to run a file edge over a non bearing surface.You can tell by if and how easily the file cuts if it has been hardened.

[beezapilot]

Got is re-assembled this morning, aside from lots of old gunky lubricant - the guts looked pretty decent. To the range this afternoon with some light load .44's and I think it will be a superb cowboy plinker-had lots of fun with it- Many thanks for the input!