Hard Primers or Light Spring or ??

[alamogunr]

I have a S&W Model 65-3 w/3" bbl. that I bought used(Probably a police trade-in). I had the hammer bobbed and an action job done. I need to practice a lot to be able to shoot DAO and consequently, cast and reload a lot of .38's.

I started using Wolf primers since I want to save my WW and others. These have resulted in misfires. Inspection of the primers shows light strikes. Firing these rounds in my Highway Patrolman results in these rounds firing normally with the exception of one round.

In both guns, but especially the Model 65, the indentation of the primer is less than normal. I interpreted this that the 65 had a lighter hammer fall but also that the Wolf primers had a harder cup than my WW primers.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is my analysis on target or should something else be considered?

[Love Life]

Yes, your analysis is correct. I had a trigger job done and swapped to Remington SPP. However, I got a bad batch of Remington primers so once these are gone I will load my 38 Specials with Federal primers only. You can remove the grips and do a half turn on the screw. That may help and relly won't hurt your trigger job much...if at all.

[BK7saum]

Bobbing the hammer removed a significant amount of mass and therefore reduced the force of the hammer strike.

If you can, increase the mainspring tension buy tightening mainspring strain screw under the grip. You should be able to achieve a nice action job without backing off the mainspring tension, but a lot of folks decrease mainspring tension as a short cut and reduce the reliability of the handgun.

If the mainspring strain screw is tightened all the way, then determine if it was shortened where it makes contact with the mainspring and replace it with a new (unmodified) one. (sometimes the screw is shortened so that the screw can be tightened and not back off, but still provide decreased mainspring tension via a shortened screw).

Just a couple of possibilities.

Brad

[BK7saum]

Decreasing the mainspring tension can lighten the trigger pull, but not as effectively as shortening the hammer rebound spring, and at the expense of decreased reliability.

[odis]

Love Life in post #2 mentions a bad batch of Rem primers, for 10 bucks more per 1000 than all of the rest they are all bad to me. Back on topic bobbing the hammer sounds like it could be the problem to me.

[alamogunr]

Love Life in post #2 mentions a bad batch of Rem primers, for 10 bucks more per 1000 than all of the rest they are all bad to me. Back on topic bobbing the hammer sounds like it could be the problem to me.

I sincerely hope not. Too much money tied up in the mods. I checked the mainspring screw and it was bottomed out. If the length had been changed, I couldn't tell it. Where can a replacement screw be obtained. I checked Brownell's web site but couldn't find that particular item.

Right now it seems my only option is to load some rounds using the WW primers that I have on hand. The Wolf primers seem to be OK in the Highway Patrolman. I was planning to load a bunch of WC loads for that gun anyway.

[Love Life]

Why are you saving the WW primers?

[BK7saum]

Brownells does carry the mainspring strain screws. If you can pull up a schematic for it will give you the item number. I have ordered some from Brownells in the past. I probably have an extra but I've got all my stuff packed away at the moment

[FergusonTO35]

I have experienced a multitude of hard CCI primers over the past few years. Encountered a few Remington as well. I'm currently redoing my defense and hunting loads to use only Federal primers.

[BK7saum]

One quick thing you could do to check the reliability is place a piece of shim stock between the strain screw the mainspring. Just a few thousand should be enough.

[Piedmont]

I checked the mainspring screw and it was bottomed out. If the length had been changed, I couldn't tell it. Where can a replacement screw be obtained. I checked Brownell's web site but couldn't find that particular item.

Right now it seems my only option is to load some rounds using the WW primers that I have on hand. The Wolf primers seem to be OK in the Highway Patrolman. I was planning to load a bunch of WC loads for that gun anyway.

Take a fired primer that the anvil part has detached from so that it is just a cup. Unscrew the strain screw and put that primer cup over the end that bears against the hammer spring. Bottom out the screw again. This will give you several thousandths more pressure on the spring. Now go shooting and see if that fixed the problem.

If it did, you can get a new strain screw, or not.

[BK7saum]

Thank you, Piedmont. I was trying to think of a suitable material for a shim. A fired primer is perfect and what I was trying to remember.

Brad

[alamogunr]

Why are you saving the WW primers?

Just in case. Actually, I have nearly 10K of the Wolf and want to use them up.

Take a fired primer that the anvil part has detached from so that it is just a cup. Unscrew the strain screw and put that primer cup over the end that bears against the hammer spring. Bottom out the screw again. This will give you several thousandths more pressure on the spring. Now go shooting and see if that fixed the problem.

If it did, you can get a new strain screw, or not.

I will try that. I knew that coffee can full of spent primers would come in handy some day. It will probably be a few days before I can get out again. In the meantime, I'll look up the screw on a schematic.

[BK7saum]

Brownell's lists a model 65 Round butt strain screw as 940-072-280WB.

Not sure if your 65 is round butt or square. The strain screw for several models is the same within the K-frame family, but not sure if round butt and square butt strain screws are. Probably not since they are specifically listed.

However, I would bet that the spent primer over the strain screw will fix your problem and allow you to shoot the wolf primers without any failure to ignite issues. If you noticed, the last little turn before the strain screw is snug really puts tension on the mainspring.

Best of luck,

Brad

[BK7saum]

Here is where the smith schematics are found. Sometimes you have to go back a few iterations. For example, not all parts for a 686-6 will be listed, but they will be on a 686-1, -2, or a -3. Or if you know that the frame configuration is the same. For example, some/most 586 parts will fit a 686, especially common parts like strain screws and springs, etc.

http://www.brownells.com/schematics/...n--mid111.aspx

[alamogunr]

Thanks for that info. I was going to the shop to look it up in the Brownell's catalog. That book for me is sort of like the Sears Roebuck catalog when I was a kid.

I guess I could pull the strain screw from a 686 and compare it to the 65.

Thanks again to everyone. I'll get this worked out eventually

[kweidner]

Take a fired primer that the anvil part has detached from so that it is just a cup. Unscrew the strain screw and put that primer cup over the end that bears against the hammer spring. Bottom out the screw again. This will give you several thousandths more pressure on the spring. Now go shooting and see if that fixed the problem.

If it did, you can get a new strain screw, or not.

Got to remember that. GREAT idea!

[alamogunr]

Thanks for that info. I was going to the shop to look it up in the Brownell's catalog. That book for me is sort of like the Sears Roebuck catalog when I was a kid.

I guess I could pull the strain screw from a 686 and compare it to the 65.

Brownell's lists the strain screw for round butt "K" frames(which mine is). I looked at my 686 but the screw is much longer for the square butt "L" frame.

The primer cup changes the trigger pull appreciably. It is kind of hard to compare the "K" frame to the "L" frame. The triggers are much different. My 65 may have been narrowed slightly when the smith polished it for double action.

I'll be trying this modification next week and then decide whether to order the new strain screw. I can't see where it would hurt to leave the primer cup in place temporarily. It can't move around much since I used a small primer cup.

[Char-Gar]

Bobbing the hammer removed a significant amount of mass and therefore reduced the force of the hammer strike.

If you can, increase the mainspring tension buy tightening mainspring strain screw under the grip. You should be able to achieve a nice action job without backing off the mainspring tension, but a lot of folks decrease mainspring tension as a short cut and reduce the reliability of the handgun.

If the mainspring strain screw is tightened all the way, then determine if it was shortened where it makes contact with the mainspring and replace it with a new (unmodified) one. (sometimes the screw is shortened so that the screw can be tightened and not back off, but still provide decreased mainspring tension via a shortened screw).

Just a couple of possibilities.

Brad

That would be my thinking as well. When you bob the hammer you are looking for ignition issues even if everything else is factory stock. The most effective way to lighten the DA trigger pull is to shoot the handgun a few thousand times. These handguns just get slicker with use. Folks who do action jobs and jack with the springs are just putting artificial wear on the parts. In took me some years and a number of Smith and Wesson DA sixgun in which I induced ignition problem and unreliability to learn this and quite messing with the springs etc.

[Old School Big Bore]

Just bought several thousand Rem LPs and have been having misfires in my M29 and my buddy's M57. We will be going to Federals since WWs are unobtainable here. Yes losing mass on the hammer doubtless contributed to the problem. If you're sure you want the hammer to be spurless, your smith can bore a hole in the body of the hammer and stake in a Mallory metal disc which will add appreciable mass. S&W can tell you the stock length of your strain screw but they will want to have the serial number regardless what model and dash it is, and have your chips dips & soda ready because you will be on hold for...a...while. I can measure the one on my M66 for you if you'd like; I have to take it apart in a couple days anyway. Also take a good look at the mainspring...some of the aftermarket ones have either a differently formed or missing locator lug at the bottom, where a factory spring has a definite integral lug forged into the bottom edge. It could just need a new stock spring.
Ed