Some questions for "those who dip" - i.e. - dipping smokeless powder charges . . .

[bedbugbilly]

Please bear with me for a minute as I lay out what I'm trying to do . . .

I load 38 Spl and 9mm on a Lee 4 hole turret using the Lee Perfect Powder Measure slid into the powder through die by means of an adapter. My main experience has been with Bulls Eye - a powder I love for my 38s especially.

I am going to be playing with some 38 Colt Short and some 38 Colt Long brass (as I hope to get a 1872 open top Colt clone sometime in the future as well as "just for the fun of it".). In working up loads for these cartridges (and for my 38s) - I want to use some other powders "to expand my horizons". Right now, I have some Unique - want to get some Red Dot, HP38, etc.

First off - I don't load "hot" - I'm old and am pretty much a plinker and like target loads for killing cans, etc. As an example - when I work up a load for the 38 Colt Short - I will be weighing out my charges - starting "low" and do ten cartridges to see how they function as far as accuracy, etc. - the normal stuff for working up loads.

Once I get my loads down - BE, Red Dot, Unique, etc. - I would like to make a "dipper" for each powder/load. I'll be using spent casings of various sizes - 22 LR, .32, etc. to make the dippers - solder on a brass rod handle and fit a wood handle that can be marked as to what it is for (cartridge - powder type - charge weight). (I'll be doing this for my 38 spl. as well).

My question is in regards to "dipping". I know that "consistency" is the most important thing. I've read that some pour powder into a container, push the measure under the powder, lift up and strike off. I'm sure there are other methods. Since BE is the only powder I'm really familiar with . . .

Do different "powder types" (i.e. ball, flake, etc) "dip differently"? Are their different techniques that work better with one powder type than another?

With my Lee Perfect Powder Measure my loads are pretty consistent when I check them every tenth round as I load. I try to open and close the valve consistently each time I drop a charge but I still can get a plus or minus 1/10 grain weight variable at times. Not a big deal as I'm not loading near max. If I'm dropping 2.7 gr of BE for WC, usually it's right on 2.7 when I weigh a throw of it but sometimes it could be 2.6 gr. or 2.8 gr.

I know it will be a job of "trial and error" in getting the dipper volume correct for the grain weight - weighing, filling and trying in dipper case, dumping and filing down.

I know nothing is "perfect" - but can I expect a "dipped charge" of one powder type to have a greater variable in grain weight than another powder type? Or, will most powder types have pretty much the same variable of say plus or minus 1/10 grain the same as a mechanical powder measure might have - if all are dipped in a consistent manner?

In making a dipper (from a cartridge case or other "tube") is there one method that's better than another for establishing how much of the case has to be filed down to give the desired grain weight charge?

For 50 years, my shooting was all BP but that's dealing in "volume", not grain weight - at some point, I'll be loading the same cartridges with BP but I can easily make dippers for that by using my adjustable BP powder measure. I'd just like to be able to "dip smokeless powder charges" and be as accurate as I can. I enjoy doing things the "old way" at times and I'd like to have the experience of dipping loads and adding that skill to my reloading. I recently picked up an old Ideal 38 spl hand loader (plier loader) and I cast a 160 gr RN out of an original Winchester mold - I'd like to "dip" when using that loading tool for demonstrating to others at times.

Suggestions? Thoughts? Information? Comments? All greatly appreciated! I know there are a lot of folks out there who "dip" and I'm sure for them, it's "second nature". I'm sure that they also have "tricks" they've learned and I'd sure appreciate being educated on those. Many thanks!

[Mk42gunner]

I have found when using dippers, either the Lee plastic ones or homemade, that consistency in how you fill the dipper is key. Whether you dredge the dipper though the powder or burrow the base into the powder then and then strike the top level can make a difference, but as long as you are consistent in the way you do it, it will work.

The easiest way I found to trim cases for dipper use is to use a lathe type case trimmer. Much easier to keep the top even than when trying to file the case mouth.

I would mark the handle with the type of powder and charge weight, but not use the caliber. 2.7 grains of Bullseye is 2.7 grains of Bullseye whether you are loading it into .38 Special or .38 Long Colt cases.

Like any other powder measure, smaller granules flow and measure easier than larger granules.

Robert

[EDG]

Anytime you measure powder by volume you are going to have some variability due to the form of the powder kernels.
The light fluffy flakes like Unique and Bullseye do not settle consistently no matter what method is used to measure them.
Ball powders are much more dense and uniform so they settle better and more consitently.

You will have more variation with hand dipping too.

If you practice your dipping for 30 minutes to an hour or so to get your technique perfected dip a sample of 30
powder charges and weigh each one. If you know how to use Excel you can graph the data and calculate the average as well as the high and low charges. From this data you can determine how good you are with a warm up session.

The sample size of 30 is considered a statistically valid sample size to predict the total range of dipped powder charge weights. That range will probably be a little larger for Bullseye than it will be for a ball powder just due to the nature of the differences in the shapes of the powder grains. If you need help with calculating the statistics of your dipping I will be glad to help or you can send me your data. I will do the calculations and send the completed file back if you have Excel or some other office software that will open it for you.

[SSGOldfart]

Smaller loads dip better and easier than larger loads just don't pack a load tapping the dripper I used to use a business card to level off the top Lee makes a complete set of dippers for about $15.00

[Duster340]

H110 is too fine to work in my Lee 4 hole press' Auto Disk. It leaks out after a few loads and would jam the Auto disk mechanism. Since I use H110 for my full on .44 mag loads, I made hand dippers from spent .45 ACP casings. Simply cut them down to hold my preferred 22.8, 23 & 24 grains of the 110, then soldered on wire "handles". Fill them up, level them off and funnel them into the pour through die. They work great and throw very consistent charges. An added benefit is that I find it relaxing loading at a slowed down the pace.

Be well all.

[shooterg]

For the price, just get more Lee Perfect Powder measures. They're cheap and work very well.
I have Dillon's on presses, have Redding BR-30, Harrell's . The Lee for most powders, is about as good as the high dollar ones.

[boho]

I made dippers out of case cartridges with a wire handle like you describe. I use them for rifle powder for several 30 caliber guns. Like said by previous posters it just takes practicing and holding to a technique. Plus its cool to have tools that you hand make yourself.

[Mk42gunner]

Like SSGOldfart said the Lee dipper set is a good investment, even though it doesn't throw a couple of my most used loads--16.0 grains of 2400, or 2.5 grains of Red Dot.

Robert

[bedbugbilly]

Thank you all for the information - greatly appreciated!

I do have a set of the Lee dippers (and I load on Lee equipment) but I also like to "make my own" if I can - have due that for years for shooting BP. All of the charges I'm looking at are for pistol so it's time to scrounge up some smaller casings that I can utilize for the dippers.

I will practice at the bench with the powders I have and see how it goes. I thought I might take an appropriate size square tupper ware container and drill a 1/4 hole on opposing sides near the top - then slide in a section of 1/4" wood dowel. I'll use a container deep enough that I can fill with powder and push the dipper under, then raise up and strike level on the bottom of the dowel.

Thanks again for the help - greatly appreuated.

[barrabruce]

I do.
I use a shortened black powder measure for my 30-30 loads.
I can either scrape the top off or poor powder in the funnel and use the funnel to scape the powder off.
I think the later is more accurate.
Log powders come out with in a 10th of a grain or so ..same as my thrower.
I use a dipper in the pan and a trickler for more accuracy if I think its warranted.

For bullseye I use a 22lr or 22 mag cut off.
I have found that powder sticking to the outside of the case more of an issue than the dipping accuracy if I get sweat or lube on my hands.

Constant technique and not double dipping if the dipper isn't full is a key for me.(compacting)
I like long small diameter dippers compared to wide short ones.
I think the variation of full has less errors.
If I wanna get nancy I use a bigger dipper to fill a smaller one and scape the top of with the bottom of the bigger dipper so I trickle it in constantly and it gets the same over fullness compacting it.

Don't know how more accurate it is but it makes me fell as thou I'm doing something.

Hope it helps
Barra

[Le Loup Solitaire]

A lot of excellent discussion and advice so far. I have used Lee dippers and homemade versions over the years. Consistency in technique is a most important actor, but practice is essential. To alter the capacity of Lee dippers to lesser amounts if needed you can use hand cut discs of various thicknesses that are held in place with some ordinary paper glue..(that can easily be removed later if desired.) LLS

[Moonie]

H110 is too fine to work in my Lee 4 hole press' Auto Disk. It leaks out after a few loads and would jam the Auto disk mechanism. Since I use H110 for my full on .44 mag loads, I made hand dippers from spent .45 ACP casings. Simply cut them down to hold my preferred 22.8, 23 & 24 grains of the 110, then soldered on wire "handles". Fill them up, level them off and funnel them into the pour through die. They work great and throw very consistent charges. An added benefit is that I find it relaxing loading at a slowed down the pace.

Be well all.

I had the same issue until I upgraded to the pro version with the wiper and sanded down the body to make sure the wiper was in contact with the disks. You still get a little powder outside of the measure but very little and it certainly won't jam up the measure.

[pdawg_shooter]

Like SSGOldfart said the Lee dipper set is a good investment, even though it doesn't throw a couple of my most used loads--16.0 grains of 2400, or 2.5 grains of Red Dot.

Robert

When I need a load my Lees skip over I just fill a larger one part way with hot glue then deepen it with a hand turned drill bit until it dips the charge I want.