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Thread: Powder storage warning of a different type.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Powder storage warning of a different type.

    Being a long time hand loader, about 45 years, I have had a couple of previous run ins with powder going bad.

    The first was a large batch of WWII surplus bulk packaged 4831. I had it stored in a hall closet in an air conditioned house. I noticed the faint acid smell and investigated. The container gave off that faint purple to brown iridescent haze of nitric acid fumes when opened. The powder grains were wet. The container was PETE plastic and was not affected by the acid. It was sad to burn 3 lbs of old powder. There was nothing much in that closet and nothing else was affected by the fumes. That was about 1985 or so. If you have any of that powder you need to check on it regularly. Mine was most likely damaged by storage in a garage. The previous owner died and his widow sold it. I also found a batch of .303 British ammo loaded with this powder that went bad. About 10 out of 20 loaded rounds had the case neck crack due to stress corrosion cracking. Most were cracked around the neck at the base of the bullet. It took me a while to connect it to the larger batch of 4831, but I had ran into similar issues with stress corrosion cracking at work.

    I moved to another house. About 20 years goes by and during a routine check of one of the metal IMR cans I found an almost unused 1lb can of 4320 rusted on the inside and was venting fumes. This one was also burned. I had remembered seeing a number of similar rusty cans of 4320 for sale at gun shows.

    This time I found a little pile of brown dust on a shelf when I had my powder stored - again in a closet in a air conditioned house. The rust came from a tool box next to the powder. I had recently moved my powders around and I examined each one. This time it was from a plastic container (with metal lid) of H4227. This is the made in Australia powder. This powder came from a friend that died. The price on it is $18.50 from a shop that sold at full MSRP. I am guessing it is at least 20 years old and there is only 15% to 20% of the powder left which may account for the slow out gassing symptoms. There is only a moderate amount of corrosion on the steel lid and a slight discoloring of one edge of the label. However the adjacent tool box has a dime size spot corroded where the paint blistered and came off. The tool box can be cleaned up and painted over.

    I took a few minutes to look around and did not like what I saw.
    I also store rifles that I am currently assembling ammo for the first time in that closet. I had several nice rifles that could have been attacked by acid fumes had the volume been very high. I was certainly glad I stay active in and out of my powder storage areas.
    When examining all my stored powders I found that my habit of marking the date of purchase with a permanent marker handy. In the case of the H4227 I have nothing but the origin of the powder - my friend's name on it.

    Keep an eye on your powder and how you store it and what is stored near it.
    You may not burn your house down but you can certainly damage anything made of steel stored near it if you have a large volume of acid fumes out gassing from a container.

    If anyone knows how to read the date off of a Hodgdon lot number I would like to hear from you.
    EDG

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Not sure how to read dates no help there.

    Just funny here in Western PA, it was last spring was the first truly bad powder I have ever found, Now that said I have some that I will only use for target shooting, just doesn't look right, smell it Okay but not like fresh powder. The bad powder stands out like with smell and color, looks like rusty powder.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    after reading this I went to a collection of partially filled commercial powder cans because I had see one a while back that had rust and bubbles on the outside of the can. Some of these cans have been around since before Clinton was elected and maybe years before that. I had almost a full can of 4064 that the metal can was falling apart and was more red powder than powder. First can I ever had go bad. It was in a blueish DuPont can. I had never given the acid fumes a thought. I didn't smell any fumes but maybe they had all leaked out a long time ago.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy Prospector Howard's Avatar
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    Good idea to keep an eye on your powder inventory, especially the older extruded powders. I haven't heard anyone tell me about ball powder going bad, but a few incidents of old extruded powder going bad. It's probably mostly about how it was stored. This reminds me of when I was young and going to the LGS with my dad almost 50 years ago. You could buy that 4831 WWII surplus powder for about 50 cents a pound. My dad would tell the owner of the shop how many pounds he wanted and the guy would just scoop it out of a big barrel into a paper bag and put it on the scale. We'd go home and dad would put it in empty powder containers and mark it. I bet alot of that old powder wasn't stored properly back then. Thanks for bringing this up EDG.
    Never in history has there been a situation so bad that the government couldn't make it worse.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master



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    I am getting away from IMR powders because of having more than just a few unopened cans go south on me. Some were not much over 10 years old. Never had that problem with any other powders.
    At one with the gun.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Well i guess i had better take a look-see at my stash. you never know i guess.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master blaser.306's Avatar
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    I just found 2 Du Pont 4064 and 1 4320. No acid smell , bubbles or any of the other things described. Just a faint hint of rust from the inside of the can!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    The powder was also 4064, blue and white can.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master at Heavens Range

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    When the hoarders start unloading their stashes we can expect lots of improperly stored powder to hit the gun shows. I won't buy it for $1 a lb.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy


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    That is certainly some food for thought. Who knows what you might get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Junior1942 View Post
    When the hoarders start unloading their stashes we can expect lots of improperly stored powder to hit the gun shows. I won't buy it for $1 a lb.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master



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    I just finished breaking down 260 rounds of the grungiest, tarnished 30-06 you ever saw...it was actually rusted to its five shot clips. It was loaded by Fabrique Nationale in 1967 and I thought I might be able to save it, but alas, the cases were so bad I only managed to save the bullets and powder. The powder is what surprised me......I expected the familiar cylindrical grains or possibly flat flakes of European powders but this stuff looks almost identical to 2400! Each charge was 53 grains and the stuff smells just fine so into a storage container it goes, along with a paper tag containing all the info.

    Nothing gets wasted these days.........

  12. #12
    Boolit Master trapper9260's Avatar
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    For some time now I started to put the data i got the powder now that way I know what one to use first now.When I buy it from the store that is and then go from there that way i am sure of the date of when I bought it and how old it is about also.Hope this will give someone any ideas on how to keep track of some what the age of there powders.I also started to do it with the bricks of primers also. I know some powders will go bad but also how it was store also.from what I have read in the past.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  13. #13
    Boolit Master



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    It's gotta be a gub'ment conspiracy against reloaders, right?
    At one with the gun.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beau Cassidy View Post
    It's gotta be a gub'ment conspiracy against reloaders, right?
    Yep, anyone that was reloading during the Clinton presidency knows what rumor sparked the primer shortage.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check