Bullet testing on water jugs

[sixshot]

I'm sure most of you know what a hard test medium water is when using handgun bullets. The good thing is, its repeatable & does give a comparison against other bullet designs. Today I did some testing with 2 different hollow point cast slugs, I wanted to see how well they would hold up & also if they would drive straight through.
The first bullet was the very popular cast HP designed for the 327 Maggie. Those of you fortunate enough to have one know what a great caliber it really is. The bullet is the 135 gr. Ferminator GC, which is the bullet designed by good friend & handgunner supreme, Fermin Garza. Fermin knew what he was doing when he put this design together, many years of shooting everything from the 22 rimfires up through the 500's led him to put this long & lean, wicked & mean bullet on the drawing board, its great!
While my load doesn't equal some others here it does a very good job for me & really gets after the water jugs. My first test last week was 2 jugs but it wasn't enough, that little monster blasted both jugs off the table so fast I didn't even get to see them go off. today I used 3 jugs, again the 135 gr. slug blasted through all 3, leaving a hole dead center through the front & out the back of the 3rd jug, very impressive for a cast hollow point. My load is 12.4 grs of H110, standard winchester primer & the 135 Ferminator, the bullet is going to raise holy %*@#% on ground squirrels & rock chucks this summer, trust me!
The second load tested today featured the 385 gr. cast HP in 475 caliber, loaded in my custom Harton 480 Bisley. My load of 21 grs. of 4227 is easy on the back end & a meat stoming, hair raising, bone breaking hunk of terror out the front end. This bullet has accounted for Moose, Bison & feral hogs. What this load did to 4 water jugs was a total suprise, I was not ready for the destruction this bullet did. And after the 4 jugs were blasted it buried into the berm at the back of the handgun range, I was totally shocked at the damage it did to over 20" of water.
Below is the video of the big 385 gr. HP taking on 4 water jugs, impressive to say the least.
What you are about to see is usually only done with premium bullets in rifles & few of them will penetrate 4 water jugs. This load in my gun is between 1050 & 1100 fps, you can go quite a bit hotter & obviously slower but why punish yourself or the gun when you can get this kind of performance. You have to click on photo to see video.

[a.squibload]

Video didn't work on my Linux computer, did work on my phone.
All 4 jugs evaporated real fast!

[freebullet]

Here ya go-

Attachment 105529

[CastingFool]

That's pretty cool. I have been thinking about doing the same thing with my 45LC.

[largom]

I picked up a couple of old suit cases at an auction. Filled these with old clothes, rags and anything cloth. I put one of these behind my water jugs to catch my boolit. No digging in berms and easy to trace boolit hole from side. Put a piece of duct tape over hole for next shot.

Larry

[USAFrox]

Are my eyes deceiving me, or do you fill your hollow point with something? I could swear I saw some sunlight glinting off of something inside the hollowpoint of that bullet you showed in the video. Do you use hot glue or something? Or is that just my eyes playing tricks on me?

[NVScouter]

The only good thing shooting water jugs is for: Free long range targets that you can see explode.

The expansions and penitration are completely false compared to flesh, hide, and bone.

[dilly]

They are a lot of fun, nonetheless.

[sixshot]

Scouter, slip on over to the singleactions forum & take a look at the one recovered from a large feral hog after it pulverized both front shoulders. We've also taken bull moose & bull bison with that same bullet with complete penetration. Nothing takes the place of big game for bullet testing.

Dick

[NVScouter]

Scouter, slip on over to the singleactions forum & take a look at the one recovered from a large feral hog after it pulverized both front shoulders. We've also taken bull moose & bull bison with that same bullet with complete penetration. Nothing takes the place of big game for bullet testing.

Dick

Both boolits are impressive to say the least. That .327 put images of a mini sharps in my head.

So many people shoot these jugs for some results they think will match hunting conditions. In water jugs boolits always expand, fly pretty straight since the jug wall explodes decreasing pressure, and look pretty cool. No hide to stretch, bones to deflect/shear noses, hair or fat to plug hollow points. I've done boolit ballistic tests for decades and I've yet to find one way to do it all. Even in animals it takes a bunch of kills to really KNOW what is good for what. It sounds like you have a couple proven combos though and best yet...designed for hunting!

Any hollowpoint for hunting or defense should have enough mass that if the entire front shears off the base can still be effective. Pretty .38 deep HP designs looks great at full mushroom and .70" from a water jug. Always remember Murphey is over your shoulder. A good flat nose always does what it does since it has less happening to fail. But a .475 385g at 1100fps losing 50% mass still has over 190g of lead getting the job done!

[bmortell]

+1 on catching the bullet after jugs with old clothing. youd be suprised how many hollowpoints ive caught with one t shirt layer after balistic gel block pass through

[sixshot]

Years ago Bob Hagel had a pretty impressive box system made up for testing bullet performance. It was soft wet dirt mixed with sawdust & placed in sections between 1" pine boards & had some cow hide covering the ends. It gave him some pretty good ideas on what certain bullets would do compared to other bullets. Some of the so called premium bullets didn't do any better than the local Hornady or Speer slugs.
You have to start somewhere, not everyone can shoot hundreds of game animals or, like Elmer Keith go to the slaughter house & shoot steers & recover the bullets. Nothing but nothing trumps shooting big game & I've used cast slugs in sixguns in most all the western states plus Alaska & Africa & have a pretty good idea of what works & what doesn't. Most everything I've ever taken has been with solids in my sixguns including 11 elk, but, this hollowpoints are very interesting, I started out trying them in the 60's, got totally away from them until the Cramer type moulds starting showing up & I'm having a grand time testing. If the next test only penetrates 3 water jugs & stops in the 4th maybe, just maybe I've made a comparison that is useable.
This 385 gr HP in the 480/475 is an absolute beast on game, trust me!

Dick

[Hickok]

The standard velocity .45 Colt load of 250-255gr rnfp cast boolit @ 850-900fps will completely penetrate four water filled @ 15 yards from Ruger New Vaquero.

Really amazing power from the black powder duplicate load in this old war horse. Works on white-tail deer also!

[mannyCA]

I've used 1 gallon water jugs before witb one caveat, I stuffed them full of newspapers and water and allowed them to soak overnight before testing. You'll catch your slugs and watch how beautifully they expand. I read somewhere that compressed wet newsprint was equivalent to tisse mass. Whether that holds true or not is anyones guess. But everything I've shot into them reacted almost the same as when I shot game/varmints with the same load.

[44man]

The only good thing shooting water jugs is for: Free long range targets that you can see explode.

The expansions and penitration are completely false compared to flesh, hide, and bone.

Exactly correct. Yet if you blow at least four sky high, the boolit will transmit energy inside an animal. I don't mean bouncing them off the board. They must explode. Then the boolit must penetrate all jugs in a straight line. Split jugs are not enough.
No testing with anything can duplicate what a boolit does in an animal in any case. The truth is always a double lung hit and a necropsy, not a CNS hit. A .22 will kill instantly with a spine or brain hit. A boolit/bullet that comes apart on bone is a failure.
A .44 is good for two jugs and is enough for deer. A HP might be only one jug and shows sad results in animals.
Attachment 106520 These jugs were put back on the board, water went a good 30' in the air and jugs were ripped apart. The .475 boolit went through 14 total. Blew 4 and split two more. The caliber does show extreme results in deer.
Maybe you can use jugs and count busted jugs.
The .480 is very close to the .475 and that will show great transfer. The video shows the .480 will work, even on very large animals. But is the HP needed? Will it bust apart? I used a hard WFN, no HP and would not shoot a deer with a HP from the .480. I prefer to grind my own burger!

[sixshot]

44man, you're correct, a HP is not needed on something as big as a 475 slug, placement is everything, as always. Water jugs are not flesh & the results are not the same. On a game animal it might be turned, it might be down hill, it might be full of corn, etc. Shooting big game is always a chess match, thats why you use more than you need, that takes care of surprises. We are getting full penetration of 4 jugs with good effect with a 275 gr HP in the Bisley 45, nothing like the 480 video but impressive to say the least. Did it again yesterday during more testing & its holding up very well at 10 BHN hardness at about 1100 fps.

Dick

Dick

[44man]

It is hard to see deer angles and I have been surprised at where exit holes are. But I get straight line penetration.
My friend Pete shot a few deer with LBT 320 gr boolits from his .44 and did not find exit holes. Shot deer sideways but hit bone, wiped the noses a little and the boolits turned through guts to be found in the hams. He never gut shot but that is what happened. I do not trust a soft HP. The LBT's are a little softer then what I use and nose disruption was a factor. I never had that happen myself. Boolits can turn 90* right quick.
Water will give even expansion but that is not in an animal.

[sixshot]

I think some times people can over think something. This was a test on WATER jugs, nothing else! No one is saying you get the same results on game because you don't. Its something that is repeatable & gives you some idea of how a bullet holds up or not. It does not tell you that it will bore straight through a bull Rhino at 300 yds with a 22 Hornet.
Just about any decent handgun bullet will work on deer, now elk, thats a different story. I've taken 13 with handguns, 11 of them were with revolvers, I have a pretty good idea of what works & what doesn't on game. The water jugs are just a test, I repeat, a test!

Dick

[nanuk]

... Boolits can turn 90* right quick.
...

Agreed

I learned that lesson one day, and was totally amazed.

I shot a 3.5yo bull moose (estimated 1100lbs) at the base of the neck, almost broadside, slight quartering to, 50 yds

bullet was a 230gr Winchester Failsafe 338WinMag, which are known for excellent penetration....

well, bullet hit the spin, turned (83?) degrees and drove through the lungs into the paunch. We never did find the bullet.

but to think THAT bullet, at 50 yards would NOT penetrate through a Moose's neckbone and out the other side??? that NEVER would have entered my head until that day

[TCLouis]

If I have time/jugs on hand, EVERYTHING I plan to hunt with goes through at least one 1 gallon jug.

I only care about relative impact reaction from the bullet/boolit.

and

lots of time I put a piece of cardboard a couple of feet behind the jug to get a bullet/boolit profile.

I want to find a video camera that I can film the impact and then slow dow the resulting spray to get an idea of what it really looks like.

NO absolute data expected, just relatie to each other.

THEN MAYBE compare to game results.