Case head thinning for reforming brass made easy with modified Lee Case trimmer

[d_man2]

Little did I know today that I would be doing up yet another project on here. It all started today when I found out that I will soon be proud owner of a Dutch 1894 revolver in 9.4mm! So like any expectant father would do, I have started to prepare for my new "baby". I need reloading dies (which I know I can get from C4HD if of course they will sell them to me because I am Canadian, some places do, most do not!). I will have to order a custom bullet die for this as well. The bullets measure .380 and I am pretty sure I am going to order a 2 in 1 mould along with a bullet measuring .330 for my next purchase of an 8mm Lebel revolver. The next thing I would need is some brass....so I did a quick Google search to what I can use. Many people are using .41 Colt and other are using 30-30. Well since I have some 30-30 in my range pickup stash I decided on 30-30's and I can get them cheaply in bulk as well, I just never had the need until now to do so. One thing that is required to make useable brass is that the heads needed to be thinned down. Since I have not got a metal lathe, I started to ponder how I could do this quickly, effectively and relatively accurately. At first I thought of just filing them down, but it sounded like far too much work and it did not seem like it would be all too accurate. The solution finally came to me, I would order a REALLY short custom case length guide from Lee...it sounded good....at least in theory, until I found out how much it would cost. Then I remembered...I have a .223 length guide that I broke a while back (yes, doing something stupid) and I decided I would try to cut it down and make my own. It worked! and worked VERY well!!!! I have included pictures of what I did and the before and after.....and yes one of those brass is an old 38-55 that I figured I might as well put in too since the top was completely destroyed but I would be cutting it down anyways.

This picture shows the initial cutting of the .223 case length guide. It was just a rough cut with bolt cutters

This picture shows taking the small threaded end that I had cut off in the previous step and screwing into the Lee case trimmer which has been chucked into my drill press and rough filing to approximately the correct length using a large pistol primer as a gauge. I forgot to take photo of the completed finish filed bit that I made, but you can see it in the last picture. I had to file it down a little further and take down the diameter very slightly so that it would completely fit in the primer pocket. It is filed to the depth of a large pistol primer

This photo shows the original cases I used along with their headstamps

The next two photos show me actually thinning down the case heads with my new trimming tool. I held the brass on a tapered metal punch, it worked well.


This is the final thinned case head along with a close up of the trimming tool itself. Basically the thickness I needed was achieved once all of the original headstamp lettering was ground off. Although I do not have the pistol or dies yet, I am positive these will work flawlessly. Stay tuned for further updates once the pistol gets in! I hope this helps anyone else out there like me who does not have a metal lathe but like to form cases whenever possible and still end up with professional looking results.

[DLCTEX]

Inovative work! Thanks for sharing.

[BudRow]

Do you now have to deepen the primer pocket lest they protrude above the case head?

[autofix4u]

He shouldn't have to, as large pistol primers are shorter than rifle primers.

[RED333]

I dont like the way you held the case in your hand, glad the cutter did not grab the case and try to take a finger
around with it.
That said, good job, use what you have to get what you need.

[d_man2]

He shouldn't have to, as large pistol primers are shorter than rifle primers.

That is exactly it, since these are rifle brass and I am using them in a pistol, the large pistol primer sits exactly where it is supposed to be once the head has been thinned

[d_man2]

I dont like the way you held the case in your hand, glad the cutter did not grab the case and try to take a finger
around with it.
That said, good job, use what you have to get what you need.

I don't think it is a dangerous as it looks, the case is held tight onto the steel punch, it is hard to see that it is there, but it is. My hand is touching the brass yes just to keep it from spinning. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to use some tight fitting mechanics gloves while doing this though.

[texassako]

Creative use of what you had but don't get to far ahead of yourself before you have the revovler, there are 2 different 9.4 Dutch cartridges. I have one of the so called Kobold revolvers the tax collectors carried that uses the shorter version. The East Indies version is longer and had a few other differences. I use .41 Mag brass after getting my initial lot from Buffalo Arms, which was also .41 mag based. It has close to the proper rim diameter, primer pocket size, and base diameter already. All I have to do is thin the rim to .042", trim to size, and run into the sizing die. .30-30 is a bit to small at the base, to big of a diameter in the rim, and the rifle primer issue you ran into. You may need to ream the neck. 16gr of FFFg under a .380" 180 gr RNFP from Old West Molds is not quite as underpowered as some books will lead you to believe.

[zuke]

I don't think it is a dangerous as it looks, the case is held tight onto the steel punch, it is hard to see that it is there, but it is. My hand is touching the brass yes just to keep it from spinning. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to use some tight fitting mechanics gloves while doing this though.

DO NOT WEAR GLOVE'S AROUND THIS TYPE OF MACHINERY!!!!!
I saw a guy that did that exact thing on a drill press and when the bit caught the glove it sucked in his hand and REALLY chewed it up. He ran a drilling set up at the time, company paid him to keep quiet and he did, till he needed surgery. Then it hit the fan.
Happened in Orillia at Speith Anderson's, about 12-15 year's ago.

[d_man2]

Creative use of what you had but don't get to far ahead of yourself before you have the revovler, there are 2 different 9.4 Dutch cartridges. I have one of the so called Kobold revolvers the tax collectors carried that uses the shorter version. The East Indies version is longer and had a few other differences. I use .41 Mag brass after getting my initial lot from Buffalo Arms, which was also .41 mag based. It has close to the proper rim diameter, primer pocket size, and base diameter already. All I have to do is thin the rim to .042", trim to size, and run into the sizing die. .30-30 is a bit to small at the base, to big of a diameter in the rim, and the rifle primer issue you ran into. You may need to ream the neck. 16gr of FFFg under a .380" 180 gr RNFP from Old West Molds is not quite as underpowered as some books will lead you to believe.

Yes I did realize that there were 2 (actually 3!) different 9.4 Dutch only after I started doing some work on this, so now I am at a standstill. Yes I think that is the mold I will go with from Buffalo arms. How can one be sure which firearm it is? what are the cylinder lengths? Which one do you have and what is the cylinder length on it?

[d_man2]

DO NOT WEAR GLOVE'S AROUND THIS TYPE OF MACHINERY!!!!!
I saw a guy that did that exact thing on a drill press and when the bit caught the glove it sucked in his hand and REALLY chewed it up. He ran a drilling set up at the time, company paid him to keep quiet and he did, till he needed surgery. Then it hit the fan.
Happened in Orillia at Speith Anderson's, about 12-15 year's ago.

Point Taken!

[d_man2]

One thing I forgot to mention was a serious advantage for us Canadians for removing the headstamp markings is for instance on an 8mm Lebel, although Fiocchi does produce ammunition for it, it is sometimes difficult to find so many people end up using 32-20 brass and reforming it into 8mm Lebel. According to Canadian laws (and not I did not write this) any pistol even if made prior to 1898 that is chambered 32-20 is NOT considered an antique it is a restricted firearm and therefore requires a LOT of paperwork whereas with an antique pistol (such as 8mm Lebel made prior to 1898) there is no paperwork required to have it as long as you are 18 or older.

This come directly off the RCMP website and no it does not make any sense, but it is what it is:

"Definition of Antique Handguns:

manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than .22 Calibre Short, .22 Calibre Long or .22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge .32 Short Colt, .32 Long Colt, .32 Smith and Wesson, .32 Smith and Wesson Long, .32‑20 Winchester, .38 Smith and Wesson; .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .38-40 Winchester, .44‑40 Winchester, or .45 Colt cartridges."

What I do know is that if I were stopped by the police, I would not want to be the one to try an explain to them why my pistol is loaded with 32-20 ammunition when really it is 8mm Lebel. I would rather have NO headstamp than one that would make it seem like a restricted firearm, so grinding off the headstamp in this case might make a lot of sense.

[texassako]

So if you have to shoot modern, but converted, brass in an antique and the headstamp is still on it, then it is no longer considered an antique? I can see where the police would say "Huh?" to a lot of antiques and just look at a headstamp, but that is still messed up. It would sure make it a pain on the ones you can't thin the rim without creating headspace issues, and then reforming primer pockets. It is hard enough making some brass as it is.

[d_man2]

So if you have to shoot modern, but converted, brass in an antique and the headstamp is still on it, then it is no longer considered an antique? I can see where the police would say "Huh?" to a lot of antiques and just look at a headstamp, but that is still messed up. It would sure make it a pain on the ones you can't thin the rim without creating headspace issues, and then reforming primer pockets. It is hard enough making some brass as it is.

Oh no, you CAN do it...and it is legal to do so, but if it says "32-20" on the brass and the police dont know what a 32-20 looks like as compared to an 8mm Lebel, I can guarantee you they will seize it and send it away until it can be properly identified by their experts. They will probably request a warrant to see what else you have on your property. It only creates headaches for you in the long run. I mean it will come back that it is not a 32-20, but you are the one who will suffer in the meantime

[d_man2]

Yes I did realize that there were 2 (actually 3!) different 9.4 Dutch only after I started doing some work on this, so now I am at a standstill. Yes I think that is the mold I will go with from Buffalo arms. How can one be sure which firearm it is? what are the cylinder lengths? Which one do you have and what is the cylinder length on it?

I just had an email from the gentleman I am buying the pistol from. I asked him to measure the cylinder for me. He said that it was 1 1/4 inches. That would make it the short 9.4 and not the colonial. The brass alone on the colonial is 1.07 inches thus it would leave only .18 inches of bullet sticking out of the case....I cannot see that it could be the colonial version with those measurements.

[texassako]

A link to mine. It was what got me into casting. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-boolits-today