Patching a .35Rem Remington Model 81 Autoloader

[Dan Cash]

I have not started patching for my Marlin in .35 yet but am patching .30-30 and .30-40 with great success using tracing paper. No luck with other papers. My loads are full house loads intended for hunting and give excellent accuracy. This 1900 vintage 1895 does these groups at 100 yards with an Accurate 215gr bullet sized .3035 and damp patched with 2 wraps .002 tracing paper. No further sizing is done. I don't know if any paper is hanging in the lube groove but I am not worried about it.

By the way, I really like your 81.

[303Guy]

I lube my cases with STP smoke stopper. Just enough to give them a tacky feel. That stops the case deformation/elongation.

[nanuk]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around "25lb" tracing paper that is only 0.002" think.

that must be some GodAwful dense paper

[McFred]

Dan, I would be plenty happy with those groups! I'm thinking I should reattach the scope, sight it in and try some jacketed bullets for an accuracy baseline. These M81s aren't known for benchrest accuracy to begin with.

303Guy, I'll use a 10mm bore brush with some solvent and see if there's just crud in there or if it really does need a little polish.

Here's a patched bullet and couple more recovered. Seems like the one on the left lost one full wrap of paper. I'm not sure when though, at the muzzle or in the jug.



Nanuk, I'm unsure how paper's graded but here's what it is:



It's pretty stiff and almost feels like a translucent matte plastic sheet. Doesn't crease well when dry and seems very durable.

[303Guy]

That fired boolit base has the same trailing edge feathering that I was getting. It was to solve that issue that I changed my boolit base edge design and went to tail-less patches. Note how uneven the feathering is? I'm sure that can do the accuracy no good.

Showing this one again.

This boolit has no trailing edge feathering, no base cupping and no powder peening (which I was getting without a folded patch). On the downside I was finding a thin paper ring either in the case mouth or in the catch box. (That great big ding on the trailing edge is from the nose folding over - I prized it off).

I developed a way of fold crimping the patch tail so it was smooth but it still caused trailing edge feathering.

[McFred]

I do like the way that base looks in the first picture, 303Guy. did you make the mould a bevel base for the tail-less patch? Or swage the heel into a radius? I'll peel off that last layer of paper on the bullet I caught in the jug and see what that trailing edge looks like, it doesn't look nearly as cupped as the other one that I mined out of the berm.

I'm tempted to add some glue to the wetting water and see if gluing the patch on the bullet would make a difference. I could eliminate the tail like that too. If the paper's so reluctant to fall off maybe it'll be happier being glued on. haha.

[303Guy]

You can use a glue that does not stick to lead. I made the mold with a bevel base for the tail-less patch. I don't thing I got it quite right as it sometimes left a thin ring of paper behind. That would be due to the gap between the case mouth and the chamber end I would say. You might try a weaker paper just to see what happens. I think the rules change when the bore does not have sharp rifling that will cut through the paper. I also haven't tried harder alloy - well I have but the patch won't grip on a smooth side so I knurled those. Even those were not very hard. My plan is to make a split mold with shallow grooves to grip the paper then to locate some green bar paper.

On base cupping, it's quite likely that a harder alloy would eliminate the problem, assuming that it's caused by boolit base upset in the throat followed by swaging down in the bore. It could also be caused by pressure on the base in the bore. That would require a gentler launch pressure which is how I got to the first picture state.

[303Guy]

You know, someone a while back was having great success with paper patching in a 35 Remington. I'll see if I can remember who it was. I have photo's of his loaded rounds.

[McFred]

With the last remaining wrap of paper removed from the bullet, pictured above, the base looks alright, mostly flat with the patch tail's impression, minimal edge feathering too (updated with picture). The paper's crimped in the collapsed lube grooves though. I can pan-lube the grooves so there's an incompressible material in there that will keep the paper from being captured and maintain the shape of the bullet too. Seems silly to lube and patch but can't hurt to try.

Peeled off as much paper as I could:


I can also try a tail-less patch like this for a plain base:



Or just try the cheap copy paper. When that doesn't work I can get a cheap toaster oven and heat treat them until they're brittle. Lots of options!

[Nobade]

I tail-less patch for 35 caliber and larger. Just make a normal parallelogram patch that hangs past the end about 1/16" or so. After it is on the boolit, roll it between your fingers to fold it over the corner, then set on the hot plate making sure the little end stays tucked down. Once dry, they stay put and work wonderfully. BTW, if I can remember I'll bring you some of my stash of green bar paper to try. I think that vellum you are using is probably way too tough and that's why it is staying on the boolit. The green bar puffs to dust at the muzzle and I don't usually even find any confetti.

-Nobade

[McFred]

Thank you kindly for the offer on the paper. I've come to the same conclusion on my tracing paper. Is green bar the same paper you're using with that M700 30-06 at 2800fps? I still have your patched example bullet you included with the naked ones. I'll look at it again and see if I'm doing what I'm supposed to. Is this this the same bullet/paper you're using in your .35 whelen? How's that working for you?

I've got my mics in my pocket and I'm getting weird looks from people while measuring paper thickness around the office/stores.

[Nobade]

Yes, I use the same paper for most all of my smokeless PP stuff except the .416 - it needs thinner paper.

I don't have a Whelen, but do have a 358 win. That same boolit and paper works great in it, the 35x30-30, 357 max, 357 mag, and 35 cal. muzzle loader.

-Nobade

[McFred]

I do remember now that you said 358Win not Whelen.

Well then, looks like I've got still more fine tuning to do...

[McFred]

I've got a few rounds loaded up to diagnose the general accuracy capabilities of this rifle, jacketed, pp and cast. Factory loads as handloads.

I can't seem to get the hang of the iron sights and the cheap scope I had seems to have shaken loose so I cut on a spare weaver mount to accept my Burris reflex sight. It should handle some Gs and should be idiot proof. I should be able to line up a target with a little red dot. If it works as well as it did on my 10/22 then I should be able to eliminate the sighting systems from my list of potential accuracy issues.

Still need some time at the range to test all this ammo though.

[Harter66]

I had terrible fits w/a couple of rifles. A model 14 in 32 Rem leaded w/hard boolits, soft, papered, naked..... turned out to be copper and ancient fouling once truly clean it shoots fine w/naked boolits, well beyond its jacketed cousins. There was a sks also that I struggled w/ for some time then it just hit 1 trip out I guess the polishing and all just hit that place and it all just worked.
I seem to have found all the fussy guns to work with.

[nekshot]

nice gun, nice gun and near Nobade- It can't get better than that can it? Every time I shoot my 81 in 35 I think of ole Hamer on Bonnie and Clydes hood as story goes!!

[McFred]

I picked up a TC contender barrel in .35 Rem for testing this PP load. It was confirmed accurate with jacketed bullets so I figured it'll do alright with PP if I did my part. I used 40g of H414 tapped to settle, then filled another 4gr of wc860, then a thin cardboard wad on top in the neck. Set the same PP bullet mentioned above in there and set out to the range.

At ~85 yards, scoped, off shooting sticks with a variable crosswind it held an inch in elevation and about 3.5" in windage. Easy extraction and primers aren't anywhere near flat and little powder residue remaining in the bore. Since it appears to work well enough I'll put it over a chrony someday; quickload says it's about 1700fps with a pretty stubby barrel. But at this point it's a start. That's twice as good as the Model 8 at a closer range. So I guess the M8 is just not a bench gun.

12" plate, 5 rnds:

[Nobade]

Way to go McFred! I see you're getting a good handle on this PP loading stuff. Looking forward to seeing you at the next cast boolit match. That 35 Rem is gonna be a lot harder to keep up with than the 357 Sig!

-Nobade

[McFred]

I too would like to get back out there to knock over some steel! Might be hard though. I agreed to a temporary, but long term, job out of town. All the gun projects are being mothballed soon.

[Nobade]

I too would like to get back out there to knock over some steel! Might be hard though. I agreed to a temporary, but long term, job out of town. All the gun projects are being mothballed soon.

Aaw.... looking forward to seeing you when you get back!

-Nobade