a trick for tumble powder coating

[bangerjim]

BB depth: I use only THREE (3) layers in whatever container I am using. That is enough for my coatings to turn out extremely well! Picking is easy and boolits do not get lost in a pile of excess BB's! A small bottle of them goes a LONG way when doing it this way.

But I have VERY low humidity here in the SW desert.

banger

[dougader]

So what's the consensus?

White or black asbb's?

Red or blue hf powder?

[walnut1704]

Greetings from a lurker. I have an idea I wish someone would try....

I have been following the powder coated bullet trend with great interest. I have powder coated some de-lubed commercial cast bullet as a test and they worked well but I did have to coat twice. They weren't as pretty as the ones I often see here but they worked well. I have cast in the past but at the moment I have not gotten back into it, though I have assembled all the components necessary. I am using commercial cast Hi-Tek coated bullets as they are readily available locally at a reasonable cost, and I am having trouble finding metal. I will eventually get it together when I either get around to it or there's another panic shortage.

In my research I ran across this table:

http://www.school-for-champions.com/...m#.VebTga1AZMk

So like a Chinese restaurant, what we're doing here is one from column A and one from Column B. The BB's are made from one of the materials in the negative charge table while lead is in the positive charge table. Note: "They are listed from those with the least tendency to attract electrons to those that readily attract electrons".

Notice the last item in the negative table: Teflon

Made me wonder if this would generate a better static field: get an old Teflon pot from Goodwill or a garage sale, drill a hole in the bottom and top and mount it on your tumbler base in place of the plastic bowl you use for brass, then fill with BB's, bullets, and powder. Might have an issue getting it to fit on the threaded rod height, but you could mount the lid upside down. I also wonder how long the Teflon would last.

Just a thought. Not sure it will work but it will be a while before I get an opportunity to try it.

[Maximumbob54]

I'm betting you would just beat the Teflon coating off the pot in a hurry. Whatever the method is for getting it to stick in the first place doesn't hold up all that well anyways with just food and a plastic spatula for a year or two.

I did try a well used (as in microwaved to death a few times)a Glad container in the larger rectangle size. And I've stopped using BB's. Worked just fine. I insist half this is just learning to shake them hard enough and long enough that you are just shy from beating the bullets to death. And I usually cast with some softer range scrap and they turn out just fine.

[bangerjim]

A tumbler/vibrator is not really needed to get well-coated PC'd boolits in ONE coat. 30 second swirl in a #5 coolwhip or ZioLok screw-on and then 10-12 seconds hard up and down is all it takes for an excellent ONE coat application. That is if all the 12 or so variables are in your favor!

I have tired the vib method and for me, it is a total waste of time and generally sluffs of lead and turns the PC darker the longer you run it.

2-3 layers of black BB's in a round #5 swirled and shaken for less than a minute works for me and lots of others on here.

There are many ways to accomplish the task. What I listed above is the best method most have found after playing with this method for over 2 years.

Thanks for your ideas. Please let us know your results.

banger

[62chevy]

I'm betting you would just beat the Teflon coating off the pot in a hurry. Whatever the method is for getting it to stick in the first place doesn't hold up all that well anyways with just food and a plastic spatula for a year or two.

I did try a well used (as in microwaved to death a few times)a Glad container in the larger rectangle size. And I've stopped using BB's. Worked just fine. I insist half this is just learning to shake them hard enough and long enough that you are just shy from beating the bullets to death. And I usually cast with some softer range scrap and they turn out just fine.

+1 on shaking them hard to get a good coating. They rattle my teeth sometimes when shaking so hard.

[Tenbender]

Funny how some powders just jump on the boolit in the shake container. Some won't stick no matter how hard you try ! Right now I'm having good luck with blue, red and rootbeer. Prismatic powder.

[pretzelxx]

I tried some blue the other night and I'm having terrible luck! Two coats still isn't a 100% coating. I think they sat too long after being acetone washed. It also has been raining and everything was siting outside...

However the base is 100% coated as well as the band's, just the nose is missing a slight amount after two coats, and it's a 45 boolit, no absolute need for the nose full coverage right?

[bangerjim]

I tried some blue the other night and I'm having terrible luck! Two coats still isn't a 100% coating. I think they sat too long after being acetone washed. It also has been raining and everything was siting outside...

However the base is 100% coated as well as the band's, just the nose is missing a slight amount after two coats, and it's a 45 boolit, no absolute need for the nose full coverage right?

As always stated: the only area you need be concerned with is the TOPS of the grease grooves that contact the barrel. The nose can be bare lead for all we care. Some even ESPC with the noses sitting in casings or holes. Also do not worry about the bases being covered. Offers no protection from anything at all. Grease offered no protection.....why should PC be any different. If you need GC's use them and do not rely on PC as a substitute.

[Maximumbob54]

I tried some blue the other night and I'm having terrible luck! Two coats still isn't a 100% coating. I think they sat too long after being acetone washed. It also has been raining and everything was siting outside...

However the base is 100% coated as well as the band's, just the nose is missing a slight amount after two coats, and it's a 45 boolit, no absolute need for the nose full coverage right?

I have cast, they set until a free weekend, coated, and shot the same day they were coated. There is zero need to washed in anything.

[bangerjim]

2nd on that! Washing is not needed to get excellent coats. Unless your hands are coated with motor oil and grease?!?!?!? I have PC'd boolits (BBDT and ESPC) weeks and weeks after cast. Not a problem. Just dumped in a plastic container with a lid. Severely oxidized old Pb can lead to coating problem as I have found.

Poor coatings, from all the MANY comments I have read on here ( and personally experienced over the past 2+ years) can be narrowed down to only a few things:
Poor swirl/shake technique
Wrong container material/shape
High humidity - probably the biggest deterrent
Damp powder - use desiccant
Poor picking tools
Under-temp oven

Yes, HF red works perfectly.
Yes, Smokes powders work perfectly++.
Yes. MOST powders bake perfectly at 400F for only 10 minutes after powder turns shiny
Yes, black ASBB's for most increase the quality of coating
No, two or more coats are not needed
No, the base does not need coated
No, a mechanical tumbler/vibrator is not needed and has been found to discolor the PC from lead worn off during the extreme actions
No, washing boolits in VOC's is not needed for good coatings, unless you are removing old grease lubes. There have been rumors of a rinse in mineral spirits (not acetone) increases the triboelectric differential slightly and can help in certain cases. I have never proven this theory.

There are many ways around the numerous problems that can occur using BBDT. One must just experiment and play around with all of them to find the best for their needs. I did.


Happy coating!

[pretzelxx]

My boolits were cooled in a bucket that has grease residue in it, and left some boolits with chunks stuck on them in the grooves... I shot 20 today doing a load test and they all shot pretty well (20 out of 30) I had a nasty jam and couldn't unstuck it.


The above got mashed into the barrel and stuck the slide partially open, far enough that my striker didn't hit the primer at all and then jammed shut on me.

[igolfat8]

Perhaps a plunk test would have caught this?

[Christopher674]

Yuck. I have done that before with a squib. Requires the same technique to clear. Use a brass rod and small hammer. Put the rod in the front of the barrell and gently tap the bullet back out of the back. Make sure the rod is only touching the bullet.

This is why I size my boolits. 99% of the time, the mold works perfectly, and sizing is unnecessary. Once in a while, the mold doesn't completely seal, and the boolit is bigger than it should be, even if I can't see it with my naked eye. (Sometime I can see the bad boolits as they will have a little "tail" on the seems.) But I always feel a problem when I push a big boolit through the lee sizing die.

[Maximumbob54]

Guys, if you aren't sizing coated bullets then this is going to happen. I don't care how you apply the coating be it with a tool or tumble you cannot put it on perfectly uniform.

[bangerjim]

Back in the "olden golden daze" of grease lubing, one ALWAYS sized to either squeeze the grease in the bands or the mule snot in the grooves. Now people are thinking they can eliminate sizing just because of the nice shiny smooth surface of PC.

I have yet to fine a boolit that drops exactly the way I want it, even from very expensive molds. Sizing takes only a few minutes and eliminates any out-layers (due to whatever).

I size after casting AND after PC'ing on almost 90% of the over 40 molds I have and use. Just gives me peace of mind the boolits are where my guns want them!

After all, this IS a hobby and not a production line, right?

banger

[62chevy]

In order to get a lubed boolit to fit my barrel they couldn't be sized but powder coating made 'em bigger so sizing now makes sense and guess what they are more accurate now too.

Make 'em fit, get 'em sized right and they will hit what you aim at.

[pretzelxx]

If you guys were all talking about my mistake, I realize what it was. The boolits were sized just fine, however when switching from die to die on my single stage, the seat and crimp die had come a little loose so the crimp wasn't all there. I was in a hurry apparently and forgot the plunk test on... Well, just that last batch because the first 20 ran fine. Or something like that... I size after a single coat now and they slide like butter.

[Shotgundrums]

Just out of curiosity, I mixed up a batch of HF red with MEK (powder seems to go into solution better than acetone). Tumbled in a bucket and dried for 30 mins, baked at 400 for 16 mins (x2)
Just gotta Fire em now, but not too shabby looking.

[bangerjim]

2x and 30 min dry time is the killer there. Way too labor intensive for me.
1X with either BBDT or ESPC and I have perfect boolits every time. 10 min @ 400F does it in my convection oven.

Do they pass the hammer test?

They look good........shoot them and see.