HI-TEK do's and don'ts

[fixerupper]

Quick question. I have some copper red powder I've mixed 20 g to 100 ml of acetone. 3 nice coats baked for 10 minutes at 400F for ten minutes each coat with a convection that accurately holds temp. Passes the wipe test and spectacularly passes the smash test. I can pound my 9mm pills into flat coins and not lose any coating. My problem is I can scratch the coating off with my finger nail. Not real easily, but not with a ton of effort either. My alloy is 20-1, fairly soft and pretty shiny bullets.

The reason why I ask is I picked up a box of 45 acp hytek from Missouri Bullets that I cannot scratch at all.

Any suggestions... Or am I fretting over nothing? They do seem to shoot without issue.

Thx in advance,..... Fixer.

[HI-TEK]

Quick question. I have some copper red powder I've mixed 20 g to 100 ml of acetone. 3 nice coats baked for 10 minutes at 400F for ten minutes each coat. Passes the wipe test and spectacularly passes the smash test. I can pound my 9mm pills into flat coins and not lose any coating. My problem is I can scratch the coating off with my finger nail. Not real easily, but not with a ton of effort either. My alloy is 20-1, fairly soft and pretty shiny bullets.

The reason why I ask is I picked up a box of 45 acp hytek from Missouri Bullets that I cannot scratch at all.

Any suggestions... Or am I fretting over nothing? They do seem to shoot without issue.

Thx in advance,..... Fixer.

My advice is, from what you describe, that may be first coat may not have been dried enough, and may have been applied too thickly.
If first coat is not 100% dry, and may be applied too thick, (or both), and, this is attempted to be baked, you may find the typical results you obtained.
Main areas to be aware of is, first coat is only a "key" bond to alloy.
Does not matter if it is blotchy and see through. Subsequent coats will not fix adhesion if not dried adequately or not baked enough or both..
If first coat is not achieved with 100% success, other coats may stick to first and second coat, and cure, but subsequent coats will not improve bond with first coat to alloy.

If you are happy with first coat and is dry, try to bake at 400F may be 12 minutes for this first coat.
Cool and size a few, after first coat is done.
If it sizes OK and passes smash tests, only then apply second and third coat.

The Hi-Tek coatings have a very strange property, that during drying, it forms a very strong skin which feels dry. However, internally, it traps vapours/moisture and prevents proper drying. This occurs more with thicker coatings.
The instant you place such a coated alloy into an oven, the alloy is cold, and vapours/moisture trapped below this skin, forms super heated steam below dry skin, and is trapped between coating and alloy, and this prevents coating and alloy bonding.
This is why thin or diluted first coats are recommended, as they dry faster, less chance of failures due to inadequate drying with trapped moisture/vapours, and should bond strongly to alloy.
Subsequent coats will bond to first coat.

With commercial casters, in cold damp wet or humid conditions, they pre-warm alloys to about 25-35C before coating, and they quickly coat to utilise warmth radiating from residual heat in alloy.
This dries first coating well as warmth from alloy drives moisture/vapours outwards away from alloy.. Once first coat is then cooked, all other coats will work/bond.
I am not surprised that you cannot scratch off coatings supplied by Missouri.

[Ausglock]

Also. the store bought bullets would have been harder alloy than what you are using.
You were probably scratching off alloy too.

[fixerupper]

Thanks guys. Ill pay special attention to that first coat on the next batch of coatings that I do. Like I said Im not too concerned as they shoot with no ill effects, but anything I can do to improve my process is a good thing.

[robertbank]

Quick question. I have more than a few sized bullets. Can they be used sucessfully using the dry powder Hi Tek product? I heard or read on one of these posts that sizing the bullets before coating affects the results negatively. Should I just retain those bullets for powder coating and only use unsized bullets for Hi Tek coating and size after they have been coated and cooked?

Take Care

Bob

[Leatherhead Bullets]

Bob,
Your reading is correct. Sizing the bullets burnishes and closes the pores of the alloy. This does significantly effect the adhesion abilities of the Hi-tek coating. You can coat, size, then recoat. But the first coat has to be on a clean, unsized bullet.

[robertbank]

Bob,
Your reading is correct. Sizing the bullets burnishes and closes the pores of the alloy. This does significantly effect the adhesion abilities of the Hi-tek coating. You can coat, size, then recoat. But the first coat has to be on a clean, unsized bullet.

Rats! Well I just have a few more bullets to powder coat then I thought I did.

Good to know though thanks, I likely will be into Hi Tek coating on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Take Care

Bob

[Ausglock]

Ummmm..... The Jury is still out on this.
I have been playing with this for a few weeks and have found that a sized bare bullet can be coated.

BUT.....the first coat MUST MUST be only 1/2 the normal amount of coating used for a first coat.
Bake as per normal 200Deg C for 12 minutes.
Size again.
Then follow with 2 normal coats.
Size again.
Load and shoot.

I have a 44 Lee mold that leaves flashing around the base.
I have done 1 coat and sized and then 2 coats.
But have also sized to remove the flashing. coated once etc etc
By using only 1/2 the amount for the first coat seems to allow the coating to better "lock" to the alloy.
So far I have no wipe or smash off.
I have fired them in the Marlin 1894 levergun and they work fine.
Going to the range today to fire more.

[HI-TEK]

Quick question. I have more than a few sized bullets. Can they be used sucessfully using the dry powder Hi Tek product? I heard or read on one of these posts that sizing the bullets before coating affects the results negatively. Should I just retain those bullets for powder coating and only use unsized bullets for Hi Tek coating and size after they have been coated and cooked?

Take Care

Bob

Bob,
when sizing, if there are no other lubes used, you may get success with recoating such sized bullets.
However, if a lube has been used during sizing, these normally give you grief, as coating will not stick, and lubes cannot be successfully cleaned off prior to coating.

Generally, if you have surface contamination on alloy, neither Hi-Tek nor conventional Powder coatings will provide success, as lubes used, generally, will minimise good wetting/adhesion of coatings to the alloy.

Industries, who powder coat, only apply coatings on clean dry materials for best results.

[jcwit]

Bob,
when sizing, if there are no other lubes used, you may get success with recoating such sized bullets.
However, if a lube has been used during sizing, these normally give you grief, as coating will not stick, and lubes cannot be successfully cleaned off prior to coating.

Generally, if you have surface contamination on alloy, neither Hi-Tek nor conventional Powder coatings will provide success, as lubes used, generally, will minimise good wetting/adhesion of coatings to the alloy.

Industries, who powder coat, only apply coatings on clean dry materials for best results.

Odd, I did have a few hundred "actually slightly over 800" lubed & sized cast bullits that I wanted to PC. I let them sit in white gas overnight then washed them in dish detergent. They PC'ed just fine, with excellent adhesion.

[jcwit]

Maybe I just don't know what I'm doing and just bumble along.

[HI-TEK]

Odd, I did have a few hundred "actually slightly over 800" lubed & sized cast bullits that I wanted to PC. I let them sit in white gas overnight then washed them in dish detergent. They PC'ed just fine, with excellent adhesion.

You did OK. I am glad you had success.
By washing with Gas, and detergent washing, obviously provided the results you obtained.
Unfortunately, there are many concoctions out there, that are not so easily removed and cause all sorts of problems.
Thanks much for your input.

[jcwit]

The lube I removed was my own mix of Alox, bees wax, parafine, and mineral oil, plus my mix was fairly soft, so it desolved in the gas easily.

[jcwit]

I have no idea what powder coating I'm using, I buy it from an Amish welding & powder coating business here locally.

[HI-TEK]

The lube I removed was my own mix of Alox, bees wax, parafine, and mineral oil, plus my mix was fairly soft, so it desolved in the gas easily.

I used to keep Bees for Honey production (home use), and I found that Bees Wax is strange stuff.
It will mix with some things, and not so well with other types that you would think that it would be OK.
Many Wax producers, (petroleum based) have not easily come up with a wax that matches properties of Bees Wax.
Bees Wax is expensive, and some try to use Petroleum waxes to "Extend" Beeswax and make more profit.
I purchased some sheets to re-wax sheet the Hive Frames, and the Bees would not touch it or extrude it to collect Honey.
I spoke to other folk who told me, that the Bees sense adulteration and wont touch it.
I had to strip out the lot, and get fresh sheets, then I started to get bees to work on the frames.
Nature, it is great.
(Apology for sidetracking)

[robertbank]

Hey guys. All I have done is sized the bullets. No lube involved. I will try Auglock's suggestion along with hi Teks comments and try Hi Tek coating them when my stuff arrives on Monday/Tuesday. The worse thing to happen is I have to PC them which is ok too.

I expect Hi Tek coating will be my go too process until the cold weather sets in next December then I can switch to PCing bullets if I feel a need.

One thing that I have discovered in al of this coating movement is some very good suppliers. Along with Donnie at Bayou Bullets I have to mention Richard at Doughty Enterprises. Google his site if you are interested in buying outstanding push through dies similar to the Lee design. They are just well for a better word excellent dies and go for $25.US. Worth every penny in my books. Ships to Canada as well with very fair postage.

Take Care

Bob

[Ausglock]

http://www.doughtyent.com/Pages/SizingDies.html

[HI-TEK]

http://www.doughtyent.com/Pages/SizingDies.html

More details
Richard Doughty
Doughty Enterprises
2421 S 4th St W
Missoula, MT 59801
406-531-2026
800-368-4489 (1-800-DOUGHTY)
richard@DoughtyEnt.com
www.DoughtyEnt.com

[landers]

I have a few question about curing Hi-tek super coat powder,
1. after letting them air dry for a while to let the acetone completely evaporate can I place them in the oven as it heats up to 400 to ensure they are dry before curing or will this cause any undesirable side effects or is it better to wait for the oven to be totally heated before I put the bullets in?

2. I found that when coating hollow point bullets it is very difficult to get the color into the hollow point, will there be any adverse effects if I increase the amount of acetone considerably to allow the Hi-tek to better flow into the hollow point? In order to get coverage into the hollow point I had to increase the mount of acetone to the mix, I then increased the amount of mix going on to the bullets to get the same amount of Hi-tek onto the bullets, since the Hi-tek powder is essentially reduced from the original recipe . I basically am applying the same amount of coating just having to tumble a little longer to allow the extra acetone to evaporate. The bullets are getting nice light coats including the inside of the hollow point.

Thanks
Landers

[ioon44]

I have been letting my Hi-Tek boolits with Candy Apple Red dry in the sun for 4 hours at 130 deg F and baking them the next day in a 400deg F preheated convection oven for 12 min.
If you don't get the first coat dry they will not pass the smash test.