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Thread: HI-TEK do's and don'ts

  1. #81
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    Fredj338 - I do ~ 500 (40 or 9mm) at a time in my small 2 tray oven. No problem. About 300 of the 165 gr. rifle. I force dried @ 150F in the oven for an hour, then turn the temp up for 15 min. In the summer when the humidity is low I just air dry overnite. No real work to doing this. 3" of snow today, been rainy all week. Took an hour to change the ****zu from a snowball to a puppy. She's back outside for the third time this morning. She doesn't like the ice but snow is FUN.
    Whatever!

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    Fredj338 - I do ~ 500 (40 or 9mm) at a time in my small 2 tray oven. No problem. About 300 of the 165 gr. rifle. I force dried @ 150F in the oven for an hour, then turn the temp up for 15 min. In the summer when the humidity is low I just air dry overnite. No real work to doing this. 3" of snow today, been rainy all week. Took an hour to change the ****zu from a snowball to a puppy. She's back outside for the third time this morning. She doesn't like the ice but snow is FUN.
    Thanks popper, yeah I need a bigger oven. My buddy has a small industrial type metal heating oven. I haven't seen it yet, but that may be where I do my coating. I would like something that would do 1000 at a time, so I could spend as little time as possible doing coating.
    Update, my buddy's metal heating oven is 14x24x14 high with two racks. I figure we could get (2) 12X20 wire racks in there, easily hold 1K each. This may be easier than I thought.
    Last edited by fredj338; 03-10-2015 at 07:48 PM.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
    NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

  3. #83
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    I did have some problems with the first coating stripping off the second one,what I did was weigh 2kg of boolits and add 5mls of coating,tumble and let dry until they weren't tacky and bake for 15 mins at 200C for the first coat only,simply sticking to doing 2kg of boolits with 5ml of coating at a time and baking for that extra 3mins first up solved all my problems. Pat

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAT303 View Post
    I did have some problems with the first coating stripping off the second one,what I did was weigh 2kg of boolits and add 5mls of coating,tumble and let dry until they weren't tacky and bake for 15 mins at 200C for the first coat only,simply sticking to doing 2kg of boolits with 5ml of coating at a time and baking for that extra 3mins first up solved all my problems. Pat
    If your second coat was stripping off first coat, then first coat was not baked at correct temperature or long enough, or both.
    You really need to ensure that coating is thoroughly dry first, and baked at 200C evenly, for long enough to fully cure.
    It is simple to take out a couple, after say 10 minutes, and 12 minutes, and so forth, cool, and solvent test. If it passes, then rest should be also close enough to finished, if even heat is being exposed to all areas inside your oven.

  5. #85
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    Hi-Tek,
    what is the difference in the brick red powder from Bayou and the Dark Green liquid?

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by zomby woof View Post
    Hi-Tek,
    what is the difference in the brick red powder from Bayou and the Dark Green liquid?
    I am wondering why the question?
    The liquid systems, as originally supplied were very similar to each other if you were using the original Dark Green coating.
    They were all suitable for most applications.
    The Brick red Powder, was made with similar technology, but was made with improving various parameters like heat resistance, improved hardness, extra slippery, and extra load carrying property and improved sizing with harder alloys.
    With the "Metallics", they were also designed to have better heat reflecting and heat resistance as well as higher load carrying ability and easier sizing especially with harder alloys.
    The newer supplied powders and liquid coatings, have better heat resistance, higher load carrying ability, more slippery, and tougher all around to try and have the products range, to try and satisfy all end use parameters.
    It would be useful if you were more specific in what you wanted to ask in terms of coating performance, or if you had a question about your findings with using the two products.
    I can be more specific to answer your questions.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    I am wondering why the question?
    The liquid systems, as originally supplied were very similar to each other if you were using the original Dark Green coating.
    They were all suitable for most applications.
    The Brick red Powder, was made with similar technology, but was made with improving various parameters like heat resistance, improved hardness, extra slippery, and extra load carrying property and improved sizing with harder alloys.
    With the "Metallics", they were also designed to have better heat reflecting and heat resistance as well as higher load carrying ability and easier sizing especially with harder alloys.
    The newer supplied powders and liquid coatings, have better heat resistance, higher load carrying ability, more slippery, and tougher all around to try and have the products range, to try and satisfy all end use parameters.
    It would be useful if you were more specific in what you wanted to ask in terms of coating performance, or if you had a question about your findings with using the two products.
    I can be more specific to answer your questions.
    OK, I have tried the dark green liquid and red copper. Both have served me very well. I thought all the new powders had the updated heat resistance (metal flecks). I'm looking to try this with rifle. The coating works great in handguns. So I guess my question should have been, what would be a better coating for rifle, Red copper or Brick red. Thanks

  8. #88
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    Quoted "I thought all the new powders had the updated heat resistance (metal flecks). I'm looking to try this with rifle."

    In reply, just to clarify, all the coatings liquid and powders contain similar ingredients.
    One is solvent based and the other is all the components but without solvent.
    With newer powdered versions, what has been improved is the property of the coating resin system, to increase hardness and improve heat reflecting ability and also improve sizing ability especially with harder alloys as required with Rifle alloys and drastic size reduction requirements.
    As far as I am aware, the dark green coated projectiles have been used successfully with Rifle ammo.
    I really do not know what you are requiring.
    Both the Brick Red and Red copper and other colours should work OK.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    Quoted "I thought all the new powders had the updated heat resistance (metal flecks). I'm looking to try this with rifle."

    In reply, just to clarify, all the coatings liquid and powders contain similar ingredients.
    One is solvent based and the other is all the components but without solvent.
    With newer powdered versions, what has been improved is the property of the coating resin system, to increase hardness and improve heat reflecting ability and also improve sizing ability especially with harder alloys as required with Rifle alloys and drastic size reduction requirements.
    As far as I am aware, the dark green coated projectiles have been used successfully with Rifle ammo.
    I really do not know what you are requiring.
    Both the Brick Red and Red copper and other colours should work OK.
    I love your powders, easy to work with. look awesome.

  10. #90
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    dark green liquid and red copper
    I couldn't get the dark green liqiud to work in MG 30/30 @ 1200 fps, the dry gold 1035 works great @ 1800 in 30BO. Note: I used the dark green as first coat on some, then the gold for final coats, worked fine. I ran the 30/30 with gold to >2000 but the accuracy wasn't there as I used ACWW. No leading but I had to wait for the smoke to clear before I could see through the scope again. Red copper is supposed to work for rifle also, I'd try 3 coats to begin.
    Whatever!

  11. #91
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    Where do you get the metal screening that you make your sheets for your oven from?

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    I couldn't get the dark green liqiud to work in MG 30/30 @ 1200 fps, the dry gold 1035 works great @ 1800 in 30BO. Note: I used the dark green as first coat on some, then the gold for final coats, worked fine. I ran the 30/30 with gold to >2000 but the accuracy wasn't there as I used ACWW. No leading but I had to wait for the smoke to clear before I could see through the scope again. Red copper is supposed to work for rifle also, I'd try 3 coats to begin.
    Popper,
    Just for giggles, try cooking the Dark green and others a little longer at 200C.
    Try a handful, at say 5 minutes extra, 10 minutes extra, and 15 minutes extra times to your normal cook.
    Then size them and shoot them with same guns with same loads.
    It will be interesting to see what happens with extra cooking.
    They will all darken some, but they should be OK.
    We had a commercial caster here, who had tested the Dark green coating, after baking it for 3 weeks at 200C for 8 hour days 5 days a week.
    They ended up very dark/blackish, but all who used it swore that they were best ever used.
    They all passed smash test. No Leading and shot accurately.
    I was most surprised with this result. We had never conducted such tests before.
    It was always thought, that the extra long baking would destroy coating, but it seems that it did not.

  13. #93
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    HI-TEK

    I have been using the Red Copper powder with good results.

    The liquid Black with Extreme Catalyst has not worked so well, my learning curve has something to do with it.

    My question is would the liquid Black work better with the 2-Extream Catalyst?

    The last I tried was 5-1-8 mix with warmed boolits.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruizer View Post
    Where do you get the metal screening that you make your sheets for your oven from?
    I got mine from a Lowes store, most hardware stores should have 1/4" hardware cloth.

  15. #95
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    I found that 5-1-8 was a little thick with the liquid black. 5-1-9 or 10 worked better with either catalyst. Remember to shake the color jug, and then shake it some more, and just when you think your arm might fall off, give it a few more shakes. This is before you mix with cat and acetone. Your bullets may come out olive drab greenish if you don't. Also, thin is better than thick with the black. A bit less than 1 ml per pound (do a minimum of 3 pounds). If you are getting poor coverage or the acetone is flashing too quick, throw a lid on your cottage cheese container or whatever you use for the first few seconds of the tumble. +/- 12 min in the oven after adequate drying. Should be good to go. It took me a bit too.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ioon44 View Post
    HI-TEK

    I have been using the Red Copper powder with good results.

    The liquid Black with Extreme Catalyst has not worked so well, my learning curve has something to do with it.

    My question is would the liquid Black work better with the 2-Extream Catalyst?

    The last I tried was 5-1-8 mix with warmed boolits.
    Ioon,

    Just curious, what areas did the black did not work well with Extreme catalyst?
    The Extreme catalyst should make product super slik as compared with standard catalyst..
    Extreme, and 2-Extreme catalysts were really designed to be used where sizing of hard alloys caused very high punch loads.
    With all coatings, it is better to do very thin coats, dry well, and then bake.
    The Black on its own should work very well with normal catalysts. It is already a very slippery coating.
    As advised by IdahoFireman, mixing well first is important as you get all the goodies in suspension when coating.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    Ioon,

    Just curious, what areas did the black did not work well with Extreme catalyst?
    The Extreme catalyst should make product super slik as compared with standard catalyst..
    Extreme, and 2-Extreme catalysts were really designed to be used where sizing of hard alloys caused very high punch loads.
    With all coatings, it is better to do very thin coats, dry well, and then bake.
    The Black on its own should work very well with normal catalysts. It is already a very slippery coating.
    As advised by IdahoFireman, mixing well first is important as you get all the goodies in suspension when coating.
    Thanks for the reply

    I guess I am confused on the catalyst, what I received with the Black liquid just says catalyst I though that was Extreme catalyst. I bought some Black Cherry liquid and it came with catalyst with a separate label saying 2-Extreme.

    So there is standard catalyst, Extreme catalyst and 2-Extreme catalyst?

    The instructions that came with the Black liquid said to mix at 5-1-5 and bake 8 to 10min.

    So I guess I was not using Extreme catalyst.

    With the mix too thick, short bake time, using a closed container for coating and insufficient drying, the boolits passed the wipe test but not the smash test. This left a lot of stuff in the barrels which is hard to scrub out and strong smell when shooting.

    I had stopped using the Black after I got the Red Copper and have got it to work really well, I just need to start over with the Black and apply what works with the Red Copper.


    Thanks again for the reply

  18. #98
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    HiTek, I'm going to try the gold in the 308 carbine pushed fast. The dark green H.Ts fine, cooked for an hour for my pistols. My test was a MG 30/30, no leading, just a ring of 'stuff' under the front sight location I had to pound out. Tight bore there. If I had used GC it may have worked. I did try the gold with GC at a pretty stout load and no leading - AC so no real accuracy. Pre Remlin Marlins like em hard and big. Actually I don't shoot that rifle much anymore.
    Whatever!

  19. #99
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    ioon44 all the catalysts work fine. but 5-1-5 is just too thick and 8 minutes is too short. that is why it flakes off and smells.

    use 5-1-7 and bake for 10 to 12. Hell... It's black.... over baking can only darken it to blacker.....
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    ioon44 all the catalysts work fine. but 5-1-5 is just too thick and 8 minutes is too short. that is why it flakes off and smells.

    use 5-1-7 and bake for 10 to 12. Hell... It's black.... over baking can only darken it to blacker.....

    5-1-5 and 8 minutes is just what the instructions that came with the coating said so I have trash the instructions and have been using the methods you have listed in this forum.

    I have been using the Red Copper powder at 125/20 mix 1st coat and 100/20 mix second coat with an open container and baking 12 minutes. This has been working really good.


    I just done some Candy Apple Red powder at 100/20 mix for both coats and baked for 12 minutes, look a little more maroon than red but passed the smash test fine. Will try 11 minutes next time.

    Thank you for all the info you have shared

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check