HI-TEK do's and don'ts

[shanep]

Thanks for the link, I'll study it

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[Vettepilot]

A good while back I bought some Hy-Tek coated bullets from Missouri Bullets for my 30.06. Haven't gotten 'round to loading/using them yet. They are red. How do I tell if it is the "Metallic" red or not?

They are BHN 18. Assuming (hoping) it is the Metallic Red they are coated with; what would max accurate velocity be??

Thanks,
Vettepilot

[Ausglock]

Hold them outside in the sunlight.
If they sparkle, ie: look like metalflake paint, they have the metallic component.

[djryan13]

Old thread... but figured I would revive with a couple basic questions:
1. I had some problems with some 40 cal bullets failing smash test using Gun Metal. Any chance I could lube over these bullets to prevent leading? Really don’t want to start over...

2. Switching to Black color for my 300 BO 500gr bullets. First coat is super thin. Passes smash test with no flaking. Same on 2nd. Failed on 3rd coat. Huh? Maybe I didn’t see the flakes on first coat cause it was so thin? I purposely diluted the Black color with almost 2x Acetone to make sure it was thin. Let it sit for 30 minutes with a small fan on them before I put in oven. Temp in the 70’s here with some humidity.

I should add that the flakes are very small on the 40 cal but noticeable - little specs. The “flakes” on the 300BO bullets are almost unnoticeable - like powder dots.

[Ausglock]

You can grease lube (if they have grease grooves) no worries.

Even with a fan, they may still be moist under the coating. use a fan heater to pre-warm them or place the tray on top of the oven while it is getting up to temp. this will warm the bullets and should solve you flaking issues.

[HI-TEK]

Old thread... but figured I would revive with a couple basic questions:
1. I had some problems with some 40 cal bullets failing smash test using Gun Metal. Any chance I could lube over these bullets to prevent leading? Really don’t want to start over...

I should add that the flakes are very small on the 40 cal but noticeable - little specs. The “flakes” on the 300BO bullets are almost unnoticeable - like powder dots.

djryan13
The small or little specs, are the removal of tops of tiny bubbles formed in coating during baking.
These bubbles are a result of moisture trying to escape from coating, and being set in cured coatings. They are like tiny domes, millions of them. It is called "Orange Skin"
That symptom is due to trapped moisture and inadequate drying before coated cast was placed inside oven.

[Stephen Cohen]

I was going to mention that if you use twice as much acetone as you stated,you will need to allow a longer drying time, I tried that trick once and it never worked for me. I imagine your 500gr bullets in a 300 BO was a typo. Regards Stephen

[Ausglock]

Warm your bullets..... they should be warm to the touch before entering the oven...that way you know there is no moisture trapped under the coating...

[djryan13]

Dang... really hoping 30mins was enough dry time. Worst thing I see is that you can’t tell when they are dry.

[ioon44]

30 mins is enough time if they are around 120 deg F, I never have problems with this time /temp combo.

[djryan13]

30 mins is enough time if they are around 120 deg F, I never have problems with this time /temp combo.

If this is true, Hi Tek really needs to change the instructions cause 10min at room temp clearly is way off... no talk of warming bullets. Very disappointed cause as I said above, it wasn’t until 3rd coat that I noticed small powder sized dots after smash test. I fear you can’t see the dots after first coat cause there is so little color.

[Ausglock]

If this is true, Hi Tek really needs to change the instructions cause 10min at room temp clearly is way off... no talk of warming bullets. Very disappointed cause as I said above, it wasn’t until 3rd coat that I noticed small powder sized dots after smash test. I fear you can’t see the dots after first coat cause there is so little color.

Even in summer, when we have 100Deg F plus temps, I still pre-warm.. prevention is better than cure...
And I do this on a commercial scale....not hobby..

[HI-TEK]

Dang... really hoping 30mins was enough dry time.
Worst thing I see is that you can’t tell when they are dry.

djryan,
First, hoping and wishing is not quite a procedure.
The coating method, advises that the coating must be totally dry before baking. How long it takes, is like how long is a piece of string without a measuring tape. It is not possible to cover and allow every environmental conditions.
There is instructions, to test bake a few first before the bulk is baked. That is how you determine dryness adequacy. This blog site has hundreds of posts advising that warm air drying will work and speed up production rates and eliminate environmental issues.
That is common sense advice. If that advice is not accepted, no wonder things go wrong.

Second, no one instructed you, including in any coating instructions, to make up your own brew to use without first trying to find out why things are not working out.
Your version/modification of coating mix, only confused the situation, as you really do not know what is the original problem was that caused failures.
99% of failures are caused by people trying to do doings "their way", and not be aware and or ignore instructions. When they get failures, instead of reading instructions to find answers, they go on the attack on blog sites such as this.

The worst thing I can see is, your trying to blame a product and not your methods used.

[HI-TEK]

If this is true, Hi Tek really needs to change the instructions cause 10min at room temp clearly is way off... no talk of warming bullets. Very disappointed cause as I said above, it wasn’t until 3rd coat that I noticed small powder sized dots after smash test. I fear you can’t see the dots after first coat cause there is so little color.

djryan
The 10 minute drying is initial drying to get rid of Acetone from coatings. As I and others advised, drying must be adjusted to suit conditions and production rates.

On instructions, it is clearly stated, that if first coat fails tests, do not coat again until you find out why there is failures.
People think, that by applying more coatings and more heat, that any problems found can be solved.

With your inability to see colour, was a situation you caused.
No one advised, including coating advice, for you to dilute your coating down to a level where you could not carry out adequate quality control.
That is why you needed 3 coats to see your results as obtained. So again, you blame the product and instructions. Sorry, but not just nor acceptable complaint.

[djryan13]

People go their own route because they find tips on this site and hope the tips work (like I am thinking of heating the bullets up now - that’s not in instructions either). The dilution was a tip I saw here. I don’t blame product but the 10min minimum in instructions is a bit confusing and misleading. I would like to know the conditions where 10 mins actually works??? Please consider spending a little more time understanding your customer and understand that folks don’t want to have to run 20 experiments to get things working. There should be a “this method always works” and if that means preheating bullets or waiting 24hrs, then put that in instructions so new folks can hit the ground running with a working process... then later they can play around to make things more efficient.

[HI-TEK]

People go their own route because they find tips on this site and hope the tips work (like I am thinking of heating the bullets up now - that’s not in instructions either). The dilution was a tip I saw here. I don’t blame product but the 10min minimum in instructions is a bit confusing and misleading. I would like to know the conditions where 10 mins actually works??? Please consider spending a little more time understanding your customer and understand that folks don’t want to have to run 20 experiments to get things working. There should be a “this method always works” and if that means preheating bullets or waiting 24hrs, then put that in instructions so new folks can hit the ground running with a working process... then later they can play around to make things more efficient.

Thanks for reply.
With coating instructions, I am investigating what instructions you were supplied.
As I stated, many times previously the instructions are a guideline of what is required both with application and quality control aspects.
User must determine with equipment used as to what works in their situation.
I have no control over weather, ovens, humidity, rain, temperatures, solvents used, quantity of product being coated, volume of coating applied, shakin/coating times, etc etc.

I am only a newbie at this, as I only have been going this for 26 plus years.
I really don't know what my customers need. Sorry.....

[djryan13]

It is bad form to mention how vast your experience is when a customer who spent $150 on your products gives a recommendation or suggestion. It implies you don’t feel there is anything that can or should be improved. Clearly not the case when there are a lot of customers with issues. I have 2 engineering masters degrees - I am not an uneducated man. I am not being rude or pissy.

I read and reread the High Performance instructions. I read and reread the threads on this forum. Multiple people have suggested using heat to warm the bullets. I have read elsewhere that that can dry it too fast. There has got to be a set of instructions that will always work (even if that means I wait a year for this to dry). That is my suggestion. Put something in instructions that should always work. Obviously you can have instructions like “not higher than xx% humidity”... but be specific and stop with the test this and this and this and this...

[HI-TEK]

It is bad form to mention how vast your experience is,
No you have this all wrong. I am not making any references to my experience. I am simply trying to advise, I invented these coatings, and in 26 plus years, I know every scam/objection that has been thrown at it. That is why people world wide, (millions) use product successfully with same or similar instructions.
Despite your qualifications, that does not make you an expert that can offer advice, especially when you are constantly are getting failures.
The coating advice, is a general advice that tries to get user to understand that they have to determine with their equipment and with advice provided, to obtain best results.

When a customer who spent $150 on your products gives a recommendation or suggestion, it implies you don’t feel there is anything that can or should be improved.
I have never said this or implied this. This is simply your assertion.

Clearly not the case when there are a lot of customers with issues. Can you please advise where are a lot of customers who are having issues? There is now two on the Cast Boolit site, and both appeared within 1-2 days from each other. How strange is that?

I have 2 engineering masters degrees - I am not an uneducated man. I am not being rude or pissy.
Having masters in engineering is great. However this does not translate into your ability to offer technical advice on the coatings.

I read and reread the High Performance instructions. I read and reread the threads on this forum. Multiple people have suggested using heat to warm the bullets. With High Performance Bullet coating instructions, I am having a look at the document to determine if it is adequate or not. I don't believe that they would issue instructions that would deliberately confuse a customer. The people on blog have determined, to remove variability of climatic or external affects, they warm air dry their coatings. That eliminates variability and produces consistent and reliable results. I don't know why that is a bad thing?

I have read elsewhere that that can dry it too fast. WHAT???? I don't know who would have said such a thing. I am aware that in hot dry conditions, the solvent can dry very quickly, and especially when people shake coat for extended periods, (which is not required)

There has got to be a set of instructions that will always work (even if that means I wait a year for this to dry). That is my suggestion. Great suggestion. However we can write a book, but it wont be read. There will never be enough information provided that can or will satisfy all, in every circumstance.

Put something in instructions that should always work. Obviously you can have instructions like “not higher than xx% humidity”... but be specific and stop with the test this and this and this and this...

Unfortunately no such detailed, with all conditions being covered advice instruction is possible.
No one has humidity meters, and every one is in different climatic and variable conditions, use different equipment, and produce different volumes of product.
The instructions already advise users to test bake a couple to determine adequate dryness. Further instructions advise, that if with test samples, if the first coat fails, continue drying the rest, and testing a only a couple at intervals, until a pass is achieved. What is so difficult with that, and why would any one need more advice?

I am really at a loss, why you are being so aggressive with these matters. I am suspecting another agenda afoot.

[jsizemore]

I discovered that this coating is not 1,2,3. Just like casting. You have to find what works for you. Imagine your the member in Finland! I had all kinds of problems until I learned to let my 1st coat dry overnight or 24 hrs before I had success. I had to cast my first bullets 5 times till I got it right. Since it's winter here I'm experimenting with Petander's method minus the acid bath. If it doesn't work you can always remelt and try again. It is a bit frustrating not getting the expected results. There are a bunch of folks using this coating and I can't imagine going back to conventional lube in my 9mm. I shot a couple hundred conventional lubed in my 1911 yesterday and can't imagine going to PC or Hitek

[djryan13]

You are reading aggression in where there is none. You are thinking the worst here. I am not offering technical advice. I am offering business advice. Please call my cell. Sent to IM.