HI-TEK do's and don'ts

[Velvet]

Would seem the problem may finally be solved, I have to admit I never felt the need for such hard alloy with my 45 acp. Regards Stephen

It is a simplistic way to end the topic.
Now it turns out that for the coating to adhere, you have to use an alloy 2-6-92. Nowhere have I read this except now.
As Ausglock says, you have to be suspicious of everything. Even from the person who has told him that this alloy is the one that really works.
It's easy to blame acetone, lead hardness, drying, oven temperature, etc. Perhaps the product needs a series of very specific and fair conditions for it to work properly. In fact it is so. Unfortunately, I have not found them ......
Again, thank you very much Stephen and Ausglock, but I will continue with the conventional method.

[Burnt Fingers]

Can you scratch this alloy with your fingernail?

[Velvet]

Can you scratch this alloy with your fingernail?

no, just peel off the coating.

[Ausglock]

I have more than 150kg of # 2 alloy, and that it works perfect without leaking any barrel, you will imagine that I am not going to discard it or re-melt to test if the coating adheres.
Anyway, thank you very much for the information. It would be good to specify it in the Hi-TEK instruction manual so people are warned that it has to have alloy 2-6-92 for the coating to adhere without problems.

The Alloy doesn't HAVE to be 2,6,92. The coating is very forgiving in it's application. However if you have some weird alloy and it doesn't perform, you can't blame the coating as the fault. Go back to wax lube as it doesn't care how hard the alloy is as it just sits in the groove and doesn't have to adhere to the alloy. I have to ask... Why 5,5,90??? Did your Mate order it specifically for rifle bullets? This is FAR FAR FAR too hard for 45ACP...Hell...45 ACP can use 8BHN alloy all day with no leading. The Lead alloy calculator shows your alloy is 15 BHN. the same as 2,6,92 alloy. You are wasting a heap of tin for no reason. Sorry... I have no other input.

[Velvet]

The Alloy doesn't HAVE to be 2,6,92. The coating is very forgiving in it's application. However if you have some weird alloy and it doesn't perform, you can't blame the coating as the fault. Go back to wax lube as it doesn't care how hard the alloy is as it just sits in the groove and doesn't have to adhere to the alloy. I have to ask... Why 5,5,90??? Did your Mate order it specifically for rifle bullets? This is FAR FAR FAR too hard for 45ACP...Hell...45 ACP can use 8BHN alloy all day with no leading. The Lead alloy calculator shows your alloy is 15 BHN. the same as 2,6,92 alloy. You are wasting a heap of tin for no reason. Sorry... I have no other input.

Don't worry Ausglock.
When we bought the lead, the truth is that I didn't know much about this, and I was starting with casting. They asked for it that way because they mainly wanted to experiment with rifle bullets. Group purchase was convenient for its price. So I participated in the purchase.
But beyond this alloy it is harder than what is needed for 45ACP, the issue is that it does not adhere.
Today I did the last test.
I put 5ML for 2.5kg of bullets.
The swirling was calmer, and only 12 seconds.
Let dry one hour in the sun.
Then forced drying for just over an hour, in the case dryer.
Then 10 minutes of pre-heating on the oven roof
Then the baking tests. It went up to 240ºc as Stephen suggested
Look at the results:



Later I will buy another Hi-tek color to try. Now I have no more patience to carry out more tests.
Again thanks to you and everyone who tried to help.
Regards

[Ausglock]

You will find that other colours will do the same as they are all based on the same resin base.

[Velvet]

Ok, Thank you.
Regards

[Burnt Fingers]

I really suspect alloy contamination.

Sorry, but we've seen WAY too many people having this exact problem and it almost always comes down to something odd in the alloy.

[Velvet]

I really suspect alloy contamination.

Sorry, but we've seen WAY too many people having this exact problem and it almost always comes down to something odd in the alloy.

By alloy contamination, do you mean some type of surface contamination? Or do you mean the composition of the lead itself?
As I mentioned earlier, these last tests I did with freshly casted bullets, and stored in covered containers.

[Burnt Fingers]

By alloy contamination, do you mean some type of surface contamination? Or do you mean the composition of the lead itself?
As I mentioned earlier, these last tests I did with freshly casted bullets, and stored in covered containers.

Either or both.

What are you dropping the boolits onto? What are you storing them in? Have you acid tested the boolits to make sure there's no zinc in them?

[dikman]

From what I've read you appear to be doing everything right, Velvet. In my humble opinion the alloy mix is likely the problem. Try acid-soaking a few, just to see if it makes any difference. Do you have any pure lead that you can use to cast a few to try coating with? Can you get hold of any range scrap to try? It's extremely unlikely it's the coating that's the problem.
As for your friends not having any issues shooting the alloy, that's pretty irrelevant because if they're using wax-type lubes then it won't matter if the alloy is contaminated because the lube will still stick.

This coating works and it's been proven, time and again, that any problems are user error (most cases) or incompatible alloy.

[Velvet]

Either or both.

What are you dropping the boolits onto? What are you storing them in? Have you acid tested the boolits to make sure there's no zinc in them?

I am throwing them on a metal mesh, which has a clean wet towel folded in 3, to absorb the impact.
Then I put them in the dryer for an hour, and store them in tupperware.
Then I apply the coating.
I have not done the acid test as you suggest. Could you tell me how it is done?

[Velvet]

From what I've read you appear to be doing everything right, Velvet. In my humble opinion the alloy mix is likely the problem. Try acid-soaking a few, just to see if it makes any difference. Do you have any pure lead that you can use to cast a few to try coating with? Can you get hold of any range scrap to try? It's extremely unlikely it's the coating that's the problem.
As for your friends not having any issues shooting the alloy, that's pretty irrelevant because if they're using wax-type lubes then it won't matter if the alloy is contaminated because the lube will still stick.

This coating works and it's been proven, time and again, that any problems are user error (most cases) or incompatible alloy.

I don't know how the acid test is done. Could you tell me how it is done?
I don't have pure lead to test, but I can get it. In fact, they have loaned me a bit of another alloy so I test.
Once you tell me what the acid test is like, I'm going to test that so we rule out that the alloy has zinc. It should not have zinc because it is a alloy made to order from a serious company, but as Ausglock says, you have to be suspicious of everything !!!! (Joke).

Yes, if I bought all the elements to apply this coating, it is because I have read very good things about it, and I have discovered that it requires specific, well-defined conditions for its application to be successful. As I said earlier, I still can't find them.

[Ausglock]

Give Petander a PM. he does it all the time with his alloy.

[HI-TEK]

I am throwing them on a metal mesh, which has a clean wet towel folded in 3, to absorb the impact.
Then I put them in the dryer for an hour, and store them in tupperware.
Then I apply the coating.
I have not done the acid test as you suggest. Could you tell me how it is done?

Simple
You take a plastic container, (size will depend on how many you are treating), place into the container, the alloy that was cast.
Add water 2 parts, and Hydrochloric Acid, one part into container. (For example premix 2 liters Water and add 1 liter Acid to the water.)
If there is any reactive contaminants in alloy, you will get a change in surface appearance.
Leave soaking for a few hours, or over night.
Drain, Keep diluted acid to treat more cast, then wash well treated cast with water, they dry it well.
Coat as normal. Dry well, and bake.
Coated cast being baked, needs to get to 180C, and stay there for 2 more minutes.
Hydrochloric Acid can be called, Muriatic acid, Concrete cleaning acid, Spirits of Salt, and is sold in most hardware stores as about 30% strength..
Make sure you wear gloves and protective gear so you don't accidentally get acid and solutions onto your self.

[Velvet]

Simple
You take a plastic container, (size will depend on how many you are treating), place into the container, the alloy that was cast.
Add water 2 parts, and Hydrochloric Acid, one part into container. (For example premix 2 liters Water and add 1 liter Acid to the water.)
If there is any reactive contaminants in alloy, you will get a change in surface appearance.
Leave soaking for a few hours, or over night.
Drain, Keep diluted acid to treat more cast, then wash well treated cast with water, they dry it well.
Coat as normal. Dry well, and bake.
Coated cast being baked, needs to get to 180C, and stay there for 2 more minutes.
Hydrochloric Acid can be called, Muriatic acid, Concrete cleaning acid, Spirits of Salt, and is sold in most hardware stores as about 30% strength..
Make sure you wear gloves and protective gear so you don't accidentally get acid and solutions onto your self.

Thank you Hi-TEK.
Yes, I used Muriatic acid to clean concrete and the like. Ok, acid method understood. What does the appearance change consist of? does it get dark? changes its color?. I'm going to leave some bullets overnight to try.

Today I had an improvement in how the bullets look after tumble them (12-15"). I changed the rectangular base container that I had, for a bucket of 25cm in diameter, for another 25 in height approximately. It remarkably improved the surface once baked. Before it was dull and rough, and now it is smooth and shiny. A thinner and more delicate film is formed. I am testing with the Ausglock mixture of 20gm-150ml acetone, and applying 6ML every 200 bullets (2.5kg approx).
The coating continues to peel off, but now it costs more to remove it with the nail, it is more adhered.
It seems to me that the solution is neither in the change of alloy, nor of acetone, nor of drying. The solution is to dilute the mixture more, to increase the amount of acetone. They are the tests that I am going to do tomorrow.
Thanks.

[HI-TEK]

Thank you Hi-TEK.
Yes, I used Muriatic acid to clean concrete and the like. Ok, acid method understood. What does the appearance change consist of? does it get dark? changes its color?. I'm going to leave some bullets overnight to try.

Today I had an improvement in how the bullets look after tumble them (12-15"). I changed the rectangular base container that I had, for a bucket of 25cm in diameter, for another 25 in height approximately. It remarkably improved the surface once baked. Before it was dull and rough, and now it is smooth and shiny. A thinner and more delicate film is formed. I am testing with the Ausglock mixture of 20gm-150ml acetone, and applying 6ML every 200 bullets (2.5kg approx).
The coating continues to peel off, but now it costs more to remove it with the nail, it is more adhered.
It seems to me that the solution is neither in the change of alloy, nor of acetone, nor of drying. The solution is to dilute the mixture more, to increase the amount of acetone. They are the tests that I am going to do tomorrow.
Thanks.

Depending on contaminant, some alloys go a porous grey, some stay silvery with fine pores left where the acid removed reactive contaminants.
Some alloys start to fizz as soon as the acid is poured over them. These are mainly contaminated with a lot of Zinc, and possibly Magnesium and some Cadmium.
Some alloys have Arsenic which is used to harden alloy.
I think that this test will simply reveal if the alloy is contributing to the poor adhesion. If acid pickling works, you have solved the mystery. If not, it will be a greater mystery.

[Stephen Cohen]

Those pictures in post 305 certainly look like the ones I tried to coat with contaminated alloy a few years back, there is something preventing adhesion. If any one deserves success it is Velvet the man has been patient and tried every trick in the book. I have a feeling the acid test will show some improvement. Regards Stephen

[Velvet]

Those pictures in post 305 certainly look like the ones I tried to coat with contaminated alloy a few years back, there is something preventing adhesion. If any one deserves success it is Velvet the man has been patient and tried every trick in the book. I have a feeling the acid test will show some improvement. Regards Stephen

Tomorrow I'm going to buy the acid to test, and we'll see if that's it.
In the event that the acid will indicate if there is contamination, will this opening of pores that it produces solve the problem? that is, could I use all the available lead by applying the coating? Or should I separate it for use with another type of lubrication?

Thanks for your words Stephen !!, somehow or another, we are going to make it work.
What interests me most is making it work perfectly because I want to start casting bullets for 308win and 9.3x62. I am going to need the hardest alloy possible, and I want to perfectly solve the issue of coating. They will be bullets to hunt, and I want to get them out at the highest possible speed, without barrel leading and without losing precision.
Again, and I never get tired of saying it, thank you very much for being there, helping.

[Velvet]

Depending on contaminant, some alloys go a porous grey, some stay silvery with fine pores left where the acid removed reactive contaminants.
Some alloys start to fizz as soon as the acid is poured over them. These are mainly contaminated with a lot of Zinc, and possibly Magnesium and some Cadmium.
Some alloys have Arsenic which is used to harden alloy.
I think that this test will simply reveal if the alloy is contributing to the poor adhesion. If acid pickling works, you have solved the mystery. If not, it will be a greater mystery.

Tomorrow I´ll buy the acid and do the tests.
Thanks Hi-TEK