Bore polish

[bandmiller2]

I read here that PP boolets polish the bore shine was the word used, the paper must be mildly abrasive to do that. Have any of you folks ever worn out a barrel with paper.?? Frank C.

[sharpsguy]

I have one 45-70 that has something over 21,000 rounds through it, most of them paper patch. Based on what I see in that barrel, and the way it shoots, I have to answer your question with a resounding NO.

[zuke]

Polish? Yes!
Wear out? No!

[Boogieman]

Are you lubing the patch? If so what are you using? I've tried JWP., ML patch lub [50/50 bees wax & olive oil], & bullet lub ,50/50 molygrease /bees wax. they all seem to work ok.

[RPRNY]

My approach on lube is to use only enough to ease the patched bullet into the case and maintain patch integrity. I then put a little bit of key maker's graphite powder on that part of the patch that remains above the case mouth.

[303Guy]

I roll my patched boolits on my case lube pad which is soaked with STP smoke stopper. I do this prior to seating. The STP soaks away leaving the boolit firmly gripped in the case neck. I do this to facilitate seating. After seating I rolled the loaded cartridge on the pad. The lubed case prevents case elongation on firing so I never have to trim. But the exposed portion of the boolit gets that extra STP which does make a difference on firing. With one gun I had developed a load which just disintegrated the patch and after a number of shots I had to increase the charge to achieve patch disintegration because the bore had become smoother.

[pdawg_shooter]

Try this, sharpen a knife and go cut a couple hundred (or more) sheets of paper. See how dull the knife becomes? Now, resharpen the same knife and see how many jacketed bullets you can cut in two.

[bandmiller2]

OK, so I will consider PP's just burnishing the bore and doing it good. Mayby a light smeer with bore brite a non embeading very fine abrasive would be what the doctor ordered for a shady barrel. Frank C.

[docone31]

I took five patched loads in my -06, at full tilt, and to those I applied valve grinding compound.
It took a sewer pipe and now I have a nice shiney bore. Since the rifle was a beater to start with I had nothing to lose.
I did several others with excellent results also.
Made a difference.

[303Guy]

I've done the valve grinding paste on patched boolits too. Just a word of caution - do not apply until after seating.



Or this will happen!

[s mac]

I guess that's a half jacket.LOL
Glad to see you back 303Guy.

[lemming]

303Guy wrote -

"The lubed case prevents case elongation on firing so I never have to trim."

That's interesting.

With my Lee Enfields in particular, I've always gone to great lengths to keep the cases (a) lube-free and (b) dry, since I've found that when I shoot them in the rain and the cases get wet, accuracy goes to pot.

I've had this explained to me thus; when a case gets slippery (with water or lube), when it expands on firing it doesn't grip the sides of the chamber, so all the force of the recoil goes against the bolt face. You can get away with this to a certain extent with a Mauser-type front locking bolt, but with a rear-locking Lee Enfield, whose bolt flexes somewhat even under normal circumstances, this extra pressure on the bolt face is i) dodgy ii) liable to increase exponentially the Lee-Enfield's tendency to compensation (if that's the term I'm looking for), affecting the point in the barrel's vibration cycle at which the bullet leaves the bore. Hence all those shots that don't show up on the paper, and the way the bolt tries to fly open.

(That's why I take three hats to the range with me on rainy days; 1 to cover the breech while it's open, 1 to cover the ammo, and 1 to keep my head dry; in that order of priority)

After case sizing, I de-lube it until it's squeaky clean. I have to say, ever since I started doing this, the accuracy of my reloads has improved enormously.

[303Guy]

Yes, you are quite right. I do control the amount of lube on the case. Not too much! The case still grips the chamber walls but does slide a little allowing the case to elongate within the elastic range. The shoulder does not move. I have gotten very good accuracy this way. Rain on the cartridges would not be a good thing. Another thing, I allow for the extra load on the bolt face by loading to moderate pressure. So, my idea is to control the case to chamber friction with a consistent amount of lube which considerably less than that required to size a case. A wipe with a cloth to remove excess is about right. Too dry on the other hand would make case grip difficult to keep consistent because of debris/dust in the chamber and case surface condition. That's my theory anyway. I do believe that the right amount of lube will actually reduce bolt face shock loading by allowing the case head to settle firmly against the bolt face earlier in the pressure curve.

[lemming]

Thanks for explaining. I don't think I'd trust myself to attain that level of consistency. I guess it depends to a certain extent on the conditions in which you usually shoot. Because nearly all my fullbore shooting is either range work (where I can keep the chamber consistently clean and dry with a bore-snake) or shooting deer from a high seat in the woods (where I only uncase the rifle and ammo once I'm in position), I can more or less ensure a clean, dry chamber and a clean, dry cartridge. If you're stalking on foot in wet or dusty conditions, you don't have that luxury. Query, though, whether you don't pick up dirt and dust on even slightly lubed cases.

[303Guy]

I can't say I've ever noticed dust problems, no. How is your case life? I have cases from over thirty years ago. I've only lost cases to the long grass and over annealing (over drying in the oven actually which annealed a whole batch of 223 and 303 case to dead soft). Except in the beginning. I was getting about three reloads per case before I cottoned on to the leaving the case lube on the cases thing. All my accuracy testing was done with lightly lubed case so I have no comparison for accuracy differences.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Paper Patched bullets will wear out a gun bore at the same rate of wear as using an electric razor will make the hair on your head grow faster! In other words, Not Hardly!Robert

[yeahbub]

Bore smoothing has been my experience as well. There's a distinct difference between smoothing and burnishing the bore surface and removing material as with an abrasive.

303Guy, I second your method of preventing case stretching. I've been lubing cases in lever actions for some years now and am still using brass from 15 years ago. One .44-40 was stretching cases .007-.009 per firing (loose headspace) and they'd last two to three reloads before they were scrap. I lube them with LPS 3, which leaves a very soft petroleum wax. Stretching is now .001 or less. I figure this is acceptable in pistol calibers, but wouldn't consider it at maxed out rifle pressures.

[303Guy]

Yes, definitely not maxed out loads. The case can absorb as much as 10% of the rearward thrust. However, my observations lead me to think that the light lubing (meaning just a slight tacky feeling) does not increase bolt face thrust. What it seems to do is allow the case to settle onto the bolt face before peak pressure occurs instead of holding onto the chamber walls then suddenly dropping back under higher pressure which increases the instantaneous bolt face thrust, something like a hammer blow. In any event, I keep my loads moderate. Except for my hornet. That I load to the max the case can take and I lube them quite liberally - not dripping wet! Dripping wet will increase pressure and bolt face thrust above what the pressure would normally give. But then my hornet can be chambered in 222 Remington so it's not going to break.

But I should caution anyone contemplating doing the same - some people believe that any amount of lube on the case will result in dangerous bolt face thrust. (In much the same way as your car radiator will reduce impact in a collision - it's not made for that but it will absorb some of the energy but not really a lot). There was an issue with oiled cartridges in WWII. I suspect these were being over oiled and caused high pressure. Anyway, the practice was stopped after some incidents.

[pdawg_shooter]

I rad an article awhile back about lab test on this subject. A strain gauge wafer was placed between the bolt face and cartridge head, both dry and lubed. No measurable difference. The conclusion they came to was no lube can withstand the pressure of the cartridge so shave no effect on bolt thrust. Just saying.

[bandmiller2]

When I resize cases I use finger applied case wax lube, very sparingly, and don't remove it. Frank C.