Did anyone ever a really accurate 9mm load with cast bullets?

[jayjay1]

I´m just wondering, because the 9mm Luger seems to be a hard round to get it precise with cast bullets.

Had anyone inhere success with this?
Which gun and which bullet was it?


Could need some starting help,
Jay

[tazman]

I am currently having excellent accuracy with an NOE 358-135 fn. I am casting it from range scrap and lubing it with either tac1 or LLA(seems to make no difference). Sized to .357.
COAL of 1.068. Taper crimp in a fourth station after seating.
I worked up a powder charge starting very low and increasing until I found a very accurate load, then kept increasing until the groups opened up. I chose the load in the center of the best grouping range.
I have since fired about 300 of these through my 9mm over the last 2 weeks with consistently great groups. Group size is 2 inches or less at 10 yards.
I have no idea of the velocity of the boolit as I do not currently have access to a chronograph. I also cannot tell what the hardness of the lead is.
Pistol is a Taurus pt92 with a stock Beretta 92 barrel. This combination shoots to my point of aim.

I had a friend who is a much better shot than I am, shoot that pistol and load over the weekend. He put 10 rounds into a group approximately 1 and 1/4 inches at 10 yards.

[DLCTEX]

The Lee 356-121 boolit is doing very well in my wife's M&P Shield and my son's M&P. I load it sized .357, lubed with Ben's Red, over 3.9 gr. Red Dot (because that is what #11 rotor in my Lil Dandy drops). It has been surprisingly accurate.

[toddrod]

I had the LEE TC bullet loaded with WSF shooting 3/4" groups at 25yds from my CZ 85 Combat in a Ransom Rest.

Same bullet with Titegroup out of my Springfield 1911 in a Ransom Rest at 20yds was 1.76" for a 5 shot group.

That is pretty good in my book.

[jayjay1]

I had the LEE TC bullet loaded with WSF shooting 3/4" groups at 25yds from my CZ 85 Combat in a Ransom Rest.

OMG!

That´s a dang good group sir!

The LEE TC bullet, is that the 120gr. or the 124gr. TL mold?

[jayjay1]

The Lee 356-121 boolit ...

Sir, do you mean the 120 bullet or is this an older mold which doesn´t exist anymore?

[toddrod]

OMG!

That´s a dang good group sir!

The LEE TC bullet, is that the 120gr. or the 124gr. TL mold?

the 120g standard lube grove

[Nobade]

My little 9mm bolt action rifle will hold an inch at 50M loaded with the Lee 125gr. 358" boolit and a compressed charge of 10B101. I never could get it to shoot well with 158gr, it was about a foot at that range with those.

-Nobade

[lotech]

Some 9mm pistols were likely not designed or built for accuracy and will never shoot really well with cast or jacketed bullets. Others can be reasonably accurate though experimentation with various moulds, alloy hardness, and bullet diameter might be necessary. Powder choice, as long as it's something suitable for the cartridge and bullet weight, may be the variable of least concern.

Many 9mm moulds cast undersize bullets, but a custom mould or one designed for the .38 Special that will cast at least a .358" bullet will probably work. Of course, nose configuration, length, and weight will have to be compatible with the pistol. Something with a long bearing surface, adequate lube capacity, and moderate to heavy weight (app. 120 - 150 grains) usually works best.

I have only worked with a few 9mm pistols and my suggestions probably won't apply to all such guns, but I've had best results using the largest diameter bullet (usually .358" or .359") that will safely chamber - no "tight" fit. While I'm sure there are some guns that won't accept a "fat" bullet, I haven't run across one yet. My current favorite 9mm mould is an out-of-production Lyman #358212, a .38 Special RN design weighing just under 150 grains when cast of wheelweight alloy. I have no loose bullets available to measure, but I believe these drop from the mould at about .359".

There is not much data available for heavy bullets in the 9mm. Proceed cautiously when working up loads.

[Ed_Shot]

I get excellent accuracy with several 9MM's with the Lyman 358242 (120 gr) sized .358 over Blue Dot 6.0 gr. By contrast, my Hi Point 995TS did not like any load with any powder I tried with the Lyman 358242 (120). After much trial and error found that the 995TS (w/4x) will hold 1" groups at 50 yds with the Lee 356-120-TC (standard lube) sized to .358 over Blue Dot 6.0 gr. IMHO 9MM is as accurate as you make it.

[aspangler]

My load is the Lee tl 124 gr rn over 3.8 gr of Red Dot. I shoot 1" to 1 1/2" groups at 25 yrds. Gun is a Hipoint c9. works well in my buddy's 92 fs also.

[HiVelocity]

What TAZMAN said! Using Power Pistol and NOE .358-135 mold, it will tear one ragged hole routinely (if you do your part).

HV

[ACrowe25]

I have excellent accuracy from the lee 120-tc using a near max charge of 231

[Le Loup Solitaire]

The 9mm is not widely regarded as a target cartridge mainly because there is a limited number of guns produced that will shoot the round accurately. One gun that will really deliver is the Sig 210 if you can afford it. Another gun is the S&W 952 which isn't cheap either. I've seen the German made Korth shoot remarkable groups, but the price is even scarier than the first two. If you shoot cast you have to do your part with well cast bullets and carefully tuned powder charges. A goodly number of powders will work well in the 9mm, will cycle the action and burn cleanly. Sizing to the best fit is important. Wadcutters are not the best choice for feeding; you want a round nose or a truncated nose design. I use Lyman 358242 and The RCBS 115 truncated cone bullets and either will hold the 8 ring or better at 25 yards two hand hold off the bench in of all things a WW2 Luger with an atrocious trigger pull. My favorite loading is 4.8 grains 4756 which fills the case pretty much and runs at a lower pressure than Bullseye or Red Dot etc. The load works even better accuracy-wise in my Baretta and 952, never a FTF in either gun. There is a wide spectrum of molds currently available from Saeco, Lee, Lyman and several independent mold makers that will give good results as well. Again the key to success with the 9mm is attention to preparation of components with an accent on uniformity. A good lube helps along with a mild taper crimp. And a fair amount of perseverance and patience as well. LLS

[jayjay1]

@Le loup solitaire:
Merci beaucoup Monsieur Loup, et bon curée!

Very good writing so, which I appreciate very much, very reproducible too!


But some things inthere intended me, it´s what you´ve said about the powders.

You write, that the powder charges should be carefully tuned.
What do you mean with that?
That only low velocity loads will bring good accuracy, or that the pressure build-up should be more consistent (= progressive powders), or something else?
Well, the SR4756 is a very progressive one so far.

Then you write, that a goodly number of powders will work well in the 9mm, with a clean burn and propper function.
You mean especially with cast bullets, I guess?
Would you be so kind, and tell us which powders you mean?

And you write also, that a lower pressure will is prefered.
That reminds me to something I´ve read elswhere, that the "pressure curve" is most important for a powder choice.
Can this two statements put together mean, that an as much as possible low-pressured and consistent pressurization leads to better accuracy with cast bullets?

And if so, how can I regulate this or even know it?

I really hope and am very excited for your response.
Meilleurs voeux à toi!

[tazman]

Check the burn rate charts. The slower powders for a particular cartridge give a slower build up of pressure. This seems to hit the bullet with less of a blow at the start. Less deformation and greater safety.
Tuning the powder charge refers to starting out with a light powder charge and working your way up in increments until you find a load weight that gives you good accuracy with proper function.
This will take some time, research, and experimentation.
Many factors effect the accuracy of a 9mm round. Overall cartridge length, the particular powder used, the amount of powder used, the type and weight of the bullet, the diameter of the bullet, and the characteristics of the barrel on your particular gun.
When you find the right combination, you can achieve your best accuracy.

[jayjay1]

Fine and clear so far.
The problem is, that I have to come to the Minor factor, so I´m not already free with velocity in relation to the bullet weight.

I use a RNFP 145gr. from MP molds right now, which has to make roundabout 900fps to ge good.

[tazman]

The heavier bullets for the 9mm require some of the slower pistol powders to achieve fastest velocity. That said 900fps seems to be easily achievable with a 147 grain bullet.
I checked several load data sources and all of them list loads achieving 900 fps safely. This shouldn't be too difficult.

[dubber123]

I have had good luck with BRP's 360640 Rf, a 150 gr. RF. I have gotten groups as small as 1.10" at 20 yds. resting off the roof of the car at 20 yds. from an inexpensive M88A. I size to .358" mostly, the Walther takes .359".

[fecmech]

Then you write, that a goodly number of powders will work well in the 9mm, with a clean burn and propper function.
You mean especially with cast bullets, I guess?
Would you be so kind, and tell us which powders you mean?

Not LLS here but my experience in the 9MM with cast at jacketed velocity with excellent accuracy. Hogdon Longshot was by far and way the best for me in the 1200 fps range (120 gr cast) followed closely by Blue Dot. Both worked very well with 120 and 147 gr. cast bullets at higher speeds. That was with 3 different 9mm's and 2 different barrels in a Browning HP.