Need Suggestions for the Summertime "Unlimited" Postal Shoot

[SquirrelHollow]

Alright....
I'm probably biting off more than I can chew, but I'd like to get another postal shoot rolling, that allows any swaged bullet - not just rimfire hulls.
I'll run it, if no one else wants to step up to the plate.

But, rather than arbitrarily set some rules and hope there's enough interest in what I thought would be fun, I figured I'd poll the mind trust, and see what you guys would like to do and how much interest there would be.

Keeping in mind that we can never make everyone happy, but we can make almost everyone happy with the right set of rules...

What would you like to do?



I have had a few ideas. There's always the classic "rifle at 100 yards" or "handgun at 25 yards". But, I've pondered a few 'non-standard' ideas, as well:
-- A "Two Gun" shoot. -Each shooter submits a handgun target shot at XX yards, and a rifle target shot at XXX yards.
-- "Pick your poison". -Choose your class from 'handgun at XX yards', 'rifle at XX yards', 'rifle at XXX yards' (long range), etc., and submit one or more targets. (We'd need a lot of participation to ensure there are plenty of entries for each class, though.)
-- And more, that I can't remember right now. (That's what you guys are for.)

I think the safest bet would be the classics, but something else could be a lot more fun and entertaining to see targets posted (such as "handgun, 10 yards, must shoot upside down - you and/or the handgun").

Whether or not there were prizes involved, I would throw something in for a random drawing of all parties that submitted targets.
Of course, if anyone wants to offer up a potential prize, and offer suggestions on how to handle them, feel free to do so.

[SquirrelHollow]

Bueller. Bueller. Bueller?
Anyone? Anyone?

[Sitzme]

I think that the 100/25 yd would be a good way to go. KISS. I think that allowing a entry in each class is good. I am new to the postal shoots and swaging also. I like being able to see what can be done, so having a group of people submitting a target using any caliber works for me. How about noting scope vs open sights but not separated into a different class.

[BT Sniper]

I'm sure there is plenty interest. Give us all a few days, we are still wrapping up the last one. I do look forward to competing rather then hosting and a summer shoot is what everyone is looking for after the long winter everyone had.

BT

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I am interested.
I have nothing to add regarding rules...except keep is simple.

[clodhopper]

If you make the distance some uncommon number some shooters might have difficulty in achiving the proper range.
25 and 100 yard backstops are almost universal.
Personaly I could shoot at any distance I have a range finder and live near lots of public land.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

after reading Clodhopper's post, that caused me to re-read the OP.

I totally missed the suggestion of different distances,

"There's always the classic "rifle at 100 yards" or "handgun at 25 yards". But, I've pondered a few 'non-standard' ideas, as well:"

well, I vote to NOT use 'non-standard' distances.

I'm not sure what it takes to attract lots of shooters, but changing these numbers "rifle at 100 yards" or "handgun at 25 yards" ain't one of them.

As to my previous post about not having anything to input, I guess I WILL offer something and maybe that'll get others to chime in ? The following will work for both "rifle at 100 yards" and "handgun at 25 yards"

1. Pick a target...the previous used will work, and since I printed off several, that's the one I'd prefer to use.

2. Pick quantity of shots per target...I liked the previous, which is 5 per target. Also I liked the idea of 10 shots on the one piece of paper that has the two targets on it.

3. enter for Rifle or Pistol or both.

I have never shot a pistol from a rest, so I'm not even sure I can put 10 shots on a piece of paper that's 8.5" x 11"...but I'll give it a try (shooting from a rest)...I read on this forum all the time that shooters get 3" groups (or smaller) with pistols at 50 yards...So 25 yards should be easy ? right ?

[SquirrelHollow]

Thanks for the feedback.

So, for preliminary rifle rules... basically the same as the last shoot?
Must be non-commercial swaged bullets (lead alloy, jacketed, swaged paper patch, or experimental designs).
100 yards.
One piece of paper, using the Accurate Shooter target.
5 shots on each target (ten shots total).
Shoot as many targets as you want, but only submit one.
Same scoring.
Any rifle.
Any cartridge.
Any rest.
Etc.


But, if handguns are going to be included, we may want to discuss the options a bit.
25 yards is a pretty standard distance on most ranges, but it isn't always available on handgun ranges. At least in my experience, 15 yards, or 50 feet, is more common on handgun ranges - particularly for the guys that have ranges that won't allow handguns on rifle ranges (which might be their only 25 yard option). Fifteen yards is also the longest distance commonly available to guys that use indoor ranges.

No "rifle-based" handguns? (I.e. no AR/AK handguns, XP-100s, etc?)
I bring that up, because even though this is a fun shoot, I know my own AR pistol will shoot tighter groups at 15 or 25 yards, with almost any bullet, than pretty much any of my revolvers (let alone the semi-autos). I like the idea of letting people shoot whatever they want, but even for a fun shoot, the rifle-based handguns might give an unfair advantage. Thoughts?

Still one piece of paper for a submission.
Perhaps with a different type of target?
5 shots per target.
Any rest.
Etc.



If I'm going to run this, I'll have to set the cutoff date for submissions as July 31st. My wife is a tall, skinny, light-framed woman, and she's pregnant with twins (or more ). So, I'll need to get this wrapped up before she looks like she swallowed a Manatee, and the family demands ALL of my attention.

That would make the start date May 1st, or as soon as we set the rules, and the end date July 31st. ...Plenty of time for a lot of warm weather shooting, and the procrastinators will be 'punished' by a little extra heat for waiting until the last minute.

[Lizard333]

I am in. So any caliber as long as we rolled it our-self right? I think I might be doing this one in 44 Magnum. I got a Redhawk that shoots real nice and I have a Winchester 94 that's been dying to get put on paper. This is going to be some fun!

[BT Sniper]

Commercial jackets? Yes or no? So long as we swage our own bullet?

I'm in!

Brian

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

...snip...
But, if handguns are going to be included, we may want to discuss the options a bit.
25 yards is a pretty standard distance on most ranges, but it isn't always available on handgun ranges. At least in my experience, 15 yards, or 50 feet, is more common on handgun ranges - particularly for the guys that have ranges that won't allow handguns on rifle ranges (which might be their only 25 yard option). Fifteen yards is also the longest distance commonly available to guys that use indoor ranges.

No "rifle-based" handguns? (I.e. no AR/AK handguns, XP-100s, etc?)
I bring that up, because even though this is a fun shoot, I know my own AR pistol will shoot tighter groups at 15 or 25 yards, with almost any bullet, than pretty much any of my revolvers (let alone the semi-autos). I like the idea of letting people shoot whatever they want, but even for a fun shoot, the rifle-based handguns might give an unfair advantage. Thoughts?

Still one piece of paper for a submission.
Perhaps with a different type of target?
5 shots per target.
Any rest.
Etc.
,,,snip,,,

sounds like Rifle is set...

Regarding pistol,
Yeah, I agree, no "rifle-based" handguns.
maybe we could limit barrel length to 10.5" max ?
I would be good with 50 feet as well...and if we go with this closer distance, then the same target should be large enough.

BT mentioned commercial jackets. I'd be OK with homeswaged bullets made with commercial jackets.

[SquirrelHollow]

I figure if we're opening it to any non-commercial swaged bullet, we might as well see what the guys using commercial jackets can do. They're still rolling their own. I have no problem with that.


For raffle prizes, I think I'll start by offering a lightly used .30 caliber FreeChex III.

[BT Sniper]

The shooters of the last postal shoot had discussed a possible "bragging rights" shoot. I don't think we will run both shoots, this possible one and a bragging rights shoot at the same time (maybe?) but some interesting ideas where brought up......

The idea to keep it simple is good yet as posted here we want to welcome any and all forms of swaged bullets so long as you rolled it yourself, Are we going to allow others to join in that don't "roll their own" yet might be able to obtain some swaged bullets from someone?

It had been mentioned to separate the contest into categories of jacket material used. I think we should at least separate those using commercial jackets and those using anything else (brass, copper tubing, etc.)

I imagine the swager that is only making bullets from 22lr brass might possibly be discouraged completing against someone shooting in the same category using J4s, all though the best group with 22lr brass jackets was in the .4 MOA range but......

Since we want to include a pistol shoot too I could possible see 4 potential winners depending on jacket material used. Rifle commercial, Rifle other, Pistol commercial, Pistol other.

Just some ideas here gentlemen.

For the pistols are we allowing scopes? mechanical rests? aka Ransom? My opinion..... I would like it open sites, no mechanical rest for pistols. Rifles can use either open sites or scope since it was an open site shooter that kicked our buts in this years postal shoot...... no wait maybe we should make everyone shoot with a scope in the rifle division Kidding!

Seems all you have left to do is determine the distance for the pistol shooters.

Are we going to separate commercial jackets from "other" jacket forms?

I suppose it could be really narrowed down to two winners. Rifle and pistol with anything goes as far as jacket material and me without my accurate 44 amp any longer!

What's the plan?

Brian

[SquirrelHollow]

How about a totally different approach ....

Something along the lines of getting a few prizes set up, then when 4 targets are posted, the 4 shooters are entered into a random drawing for a random prize. Then, the next block of four shooters are entered for another random drawing, etc.
If the shooters want to see how their target stacks up "officially" they can send it off for the same person to score everything.

That way, anything goes, each target is judged only on the data provided by the shooter*, there's a small incentive to help motivate a few more people, and it's more about bragging rights (or looking for advice) than competition.

*(That way someone can shoot their scoped XP100 at 7 yards, if they want, and it really isn't competing with Joe Newbie that's trying hard to dial in his open sight .44 Mag at 15 yards.)

Thoughts?


Oh... I see absolutely no reason not to let people shoot, if they can get swaged bullets, but just don't swage their own. That is, after all, the only way I was able to submit a target in the rimfire postal shoot.

[Sitzme]

Some of the last ideas seem to be making it more complicated than needed. This group seems to be pretty civil and one of the better shooters even offered to decline taking a prize if he entered last time. If someone has a pistol that is more like a rifle with no butt stock, I say leave it to them to enter as a rifle or not. As long as it stays fun and civil, I will enter whatever you come up with.

One other thought. You seem to have a busy time coming up to say the least. Do we really need 2 months or would there be some value to making it 4-6 weeks? That would also free up the schedule for the bragging rights shoot a tiny bit. Still puts it in the July-August time frame. First prize on that one should be a sweat band!

[BT Sniper]

OK lets see if I got this figured out....

Rifle-100 yrds, two 5 shot groups same as last postal shoot, anything goes as far as caliber or jacket material so long as it is hand swaged by someone other then a commercial bullet supplier. Everyone in same category no matter their jacket material of choice.

Pistol- Same as rifle with range yet to be determined. Sounds like either 50 feet or 25 yards.

It all sounds good to me and I'll be happy to compete just finalize the particulars of the contest and let us know. It's all up to you Squirrel Hollow.

BT

[SquirrelHollow]

Thanks for the continuing feedback.

The more we discuss this, the more I realize what I'm trying to do and the more it feels like it is moving toward the 'bragging rights' concept -- just trying to get our members to post some targets to see what they're doing with their bullets and how well some of our members have dialed things in.

I really don't want to create a divergent shoot, trying to be different, just so it doesn't 'compete' with anything else that's going on.

And, after going back through some older threads, there was definitely more interest in bragging rights (more people spoke up about it, anyway).

I'm wondering if we should stick with what people have been asking for, and not try to get too many similar events strung out through the year.
I just don't want to see a handful of shooters participating in a couple different shoots, if we have a chance of getting a lot of participation in one shoot.

[johnson1942]

go post this swaged bullet postal shoot on the black powder paperpatched site. some of those guys are very serious shooters who buy bulk swaged bullets to paperpatch and shoot. their could poss. be a few on the smokeless site also. their are guys who do 4 inch groups a 400 yards with swaged paperpatch bullets out of a buffalo rifle. even some who do the same with a longrange target muzzle loader and swaged paperpatched bullets. it might perk a lot of interest in the swaged section of castboolits. you might get some fantastic groups sent to you that raises interest for others to try swageing. just a thought as we are swagers also.

[SquirrelHollow]

Well, I'm sorry guys, but I'm not going to have time to run this. Apparently, my opening statement was more prophecy than casual statement.

Alright....
I'm probably biting off more than I can chew, but (...)

After some lengthy discussion with the wife about a family matter, I'll be finishing half of the basement, rewiring half of the main floor, and remodeling 2 closets - the combination of which requires replumbing almost the entire house, chipping up about 120 linear feet of concrete for sewage runs, and relocating the main breaker panels.

With the limited amount of free time I have and the upcoming stress-fest, I think it's best that I don't take on anything else right now, and just focus on maintaining my sanity.



If someone wants to step up and run with the 'unlimited' postal shoot idea, that's fantastic. If not... maybe next year.

If someone does get another shoot going where prizes are involved, I'll still offer the FreeChex.

Again... I'm really sorry. I was hoping to give something back for the knowledge all of you have shared here. But every time I try to commit to something, some kind of commitment keeps me from following through or I only make it by the skin of my teeth...

[BT Sniper]

No Problem Squirrel Hollow. It is a bit of effort. Take care of that expecting wife of yours, I'm sure she will need plenty of your attention. Congrats by the way!

We'll get a "bragging rights" shoot going soon.

BT